[Kevin] (0:00 - 0:50)
Hi everyone, just a quick note on this episode. This episode is a continuation of the discussion that Michelle and I had last time, all about changing your habits, where Michelle offered some very practical suggestions about how to change your eating habits and make those habits stick. So as you know, that episode ran a little bit long, so this episode is really an outtake from that one, where Michelle talked specifically about eating out and how to navigate eating out when you are trying to adjust your eating habits.

So that's where this episode comes from, and we hope you enjoy it. Now on with the show.

Hey Michelle, how are you doing?

[Michelle] (0:51 - 0:51)
I'm great, Kevin.

[Kevin] (0:52 - 1:19)
Well I just came back from a week and a half hiking in Ireland. Oh my god, that's right. In Ireland, the thing that struck me was, it truly is the Emerald Isle.

Like everything is so green and so lush, mainly because they get so much rain. But whereas then when I came back, things are already starting to go a little brown and grey here, but it was just such a breath of fresh air over there. It was incredible.

I loved it.

[Michelle] (1:20 - 1:23)
Now was it hot? Because it's still quite hot here.

[Kevin] (1:23 - 1:54)
It was about the same. It was, you know, mid-twenties, I would say, which is probably around 75 Fahrenheit for American listeners. So quite pleasant.

Great for walking, great for hiking, not too oppressive. Of course, there wasn't that much sun because it was mostly overcast, but that was nice because it kept the temperature a little bit down. But honestly, I lucked out.

I had amazing weather. I only had one day of rain, which in a week and a half in Ireland is pretty rare.

[Michelle] (1:56 - 2:01)
Oh, I'm planning to go there in a couple of years. I would love to hike. It's just so beautiful.

[Kevin] (2:01 - 2:03)
It is. It is.

[Michelle] (2:03 - 2:14)
Now, did you find it hard to find healthy food? Like I mean, I love me a good Irish pub, but there's not a lot I could eat there.

[Kevin] (2:15 - 3:40)
Well, I mean, I'm much more of an omnivore than you are. But one thing I discovered that was absolutely delicious. So I am a sucker for, or I thought I was a sucker for clam chowder because I used to work in Boston area, New England for another, in another life.

So I'd always be traveling down to Boston having clam chowder and I loved it. Irish seafood chowder is on a whole other level. So first off, it's not as thick and not as sort of, no offense to New England chowder, but it's not sort of as glutinous and gluey and thick as a New England chowder.

It's a little bit thinner, but still has that nice body to it. But what I love about it is it's not just clams. They had big chunks of salmon, clams, mussels, shrimp.

What was the, haki, which is a big fish that's kind of like cod or hake, hake, sorry. It's pronounced hake. And like a lot of different types of fish.

And so it just created this really delicious medley that worked really well. And it wasn't quite as, again, it wasn't quite as filling and oppressive and stick to the, stick to the edge of your, you know, stick to the insides of your stomach as, as New England clam chowder. So on so many meals, I just had that and a salad.

And that was pretty much my meal.

[Michelle] (3:41 - 3:41)
And a big salad?

[Kevin] (3:42 - 3:44)
A big salad. Yeah. Yeah.

A big salad because of.

[Michelle] (3:44 - 3:46)
And they have good, fresh veggies.

[Kevin] (3:46 - 3:59)
Yeah, they had great salads. There were actually a lot of like superfood salads that I had with kale and pomegranate seeds and all sorts of things. Because of course I have to make sure my salad's at least 50% of the size of my plate.

[Michelle] (4:00 - 4:00)
Exactly.

[Kevin] (4:01 - 4:08)
And, and then of course a little bit of Irish soda bread, which is just incredible. I love that stuff so much.

[Michelle] (4:08 - 4:13)
Yeah, Irish soda bread is so good. It's really good with tea. Irish soda bread makes a good, a good tea snack.

[Kevin] (4:13 - 4:18)
It's good with everything and dipping it in the seafood chowder. Incredible.

[Michelle] (4:18 - 4:42)
See, I'd probably, I'd like when I travel like that, like I certainly wouldn't subsist on that food, but I would probably try it just to experience it. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to have like a whole bowl of it. I don't know.

I just haven't. I think it's part of it. It's the oceans.

Um, do you ever see, what was that? Sea Spiracy? Did you ever watch that documentary?

[Kevin] (4:42 - 4:44)
No, I've heard of it, but I haven't seen it.

[Michelle] (4:45 - 5:59)
Yeah. It really, it really just made me aware of the environmental implications of our overfishing and, and things like that. And I don't, I, I'm really kind of torn on that subject because, I mean, I used to love seafood, but I also really feel for people that that's their profession.

And they've been sustaining their families and their communities on fishing. So I do think that we over consume and we could all stand to consume less. And I'm, I'm an ideal candidate to make the choice to consume so that, you know, as a population we're consuming less, but you know, I, I wouldn't necessarily, there's no evidence.

As I said, that says that we have to be exclusively plant-based. Um, so there's just no benefit. No, there's no additional benefit to those foods in our diets.

But I still enjoy it. Like I went to Spain and I had some salmon, um, because I was sitting by the ocean, it was fresh cod, it was a little local fisherman guy. It wasn't like a big operation.

And, you know, when, when in Rome, right. I guess when in Spain, when in Ireland.

[Kevin] (5:59 - 6:53)
Exactly, exactly. And, and part of, and for me, part of traveling is not just seeing the sites and meeting the people, but eating the food. And, and yeah, you can, you can still make choices, I think.

And, you know, I had one traditional Irish stew and it was delicious, but that was sufficient for me just because it's a lot of meat and, and, you know, that's not my thing, but I wanted to try it and I wanted to see, and, you know, on a cold rainy night, it was actually really delicious because it was very comforting and, and really, you know, a depth of flavors, but I wouldn't want it every day.

And even with hiking, even though I was starving after a day of hiking, I didn't necessarily want to come back to a, you know, a big heavy Irish stew. Uh, but the clam, the, the seafood chowder, incredible, incredible.

[Michelle] (6:53 - 7:11)
I don't think I could ever, um, really enjoy, uh, chicken or beef or anything like that again, but I'm, I am a little, I am a little nostalgic for, you know, really good fish or really good quality seafood. And I don't, I don't mean like shrimp rings from Costco.

[Kevin] (7:13 - 7:14)
Nothing against Costco.

[Michelle] (7:15 - 7:52)
Yeah. I mean, that fresh, that fresh, um, fishing village sort of experience, but even, you know, the Okinawans are one of the populations of the blue zones. Well, the whole Okinawan centenarian study is one of, was one of the most groundbreaking, you know, pieces of shining a light on this, that the fact that in this modern industrialized commercial-based society, we still had a pocket of people that were eating their traditional diet and living long without disease.

And this is like a kind of a precursor to the blue zones, right?

[Kevin] (7:53 - 7:53)
Right.

[Michelle] (7:53 - 9:06)
There's this myth that, oh, well, the Okinawans are in Japan and Japan's an island, they eat a lot of fish, like, you know, the land of sushi. And the truth is they actually don't. They eat a little bit of fish, but they really, the majority of their diet are like these purple yams, like these purple potatoes and sea vegetables and other things.

And it's not that they make a conscious choice. There's like this symbiosis of their relationship with their environment, their respect for the ocean, their respect to just take what they need. But not take too much and using using those foods more to enhance flavor of their vegetable dishes than making them the centerpiece on their plate.

So I found that really interesting when I when I learned that there's a lot of things, a lot of assumptions that we make about other cultures that we use as justification for our dietary choices today. But then I found it very interesting studying that nutrition going, huh, you know, a lot of people think the Okinawans are centenarians because they eat tons of fish and they don't. It's still less than 10 percent of their diet is animal protein.

So it's really very interesting. And that includes fish when I say animal.

[Kevin] (9:06 - 10:02)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, when I went to Japan, I mean, in Japan, the funny thing is sushi is a bar food there. It's basically an appetizer in Japan, whereas, you know, here in North America, here it's an all you can eat buffet.

Exactly, exactly. It's the main course and that's you sit down and you have a plate of sushi or you go to the buffet and you have, you know, you load up on sushi. And I was astounded when I went to Japan.

I clearly remember I was astounded that the variety of food that I wasn't aware of just because it hadn't come to the huge variety. I mean, sushi basically predominates or used to predominate North American cuisine for like Japanese food. Now, of course, you know, now you're getting poke bowls and now you're getting, you know, some of the variety.

[Michelle] (10:03 - 10:05)
And we're getting westernized versions of them.

[Kevin] (10:06 - 10:24)
Yeah, but sometimes you can still find like there's a really great place that I found that does the amazing what are they called? They're called okonomiyaki, which is basically like a vegetable pancake, for lack of another word. That's delicious.

[Michelle] (10:24 - 10:28)
Kind of like a latke, like a latke kind of thing.

[Kevin] (10:28 - 10:43)
Yeah, basically. Yeah. So sort of halfway between a latke and a pakora, like imagine like or an onion bhaji.

It's kind of half it's kind of halfway. I'm sure like all the Japanese people are saying, oh, my God, you're insulting our food. I don't mean to.

[Michelle] (10:43 - 10:47)
We're appreciating. We're appreciating their food. You had me at onion bhaji.

[Kevin] (10:48 - 11:31)
It is truly delicious. And I remember being in Kyoto on the Philosopher's Walk and stopping and having one of these vegetable pancakes, for lack of another word. It was autumn.

It was a beautiful day. We were surrounded by temples and by a little babbling brook. And it was just magical.

And something that I never imagined myself eating because I had no idea it existed. So that's also why I like travel, because you can find other foods and lifestyles and everything else that you wouldn't have seen before. You wouldn't have tried if you just have, you know, your the what's exported to your local area.

[Michelle] (11:31 - 12:10)
You know, sometimes it's the simplest things, too, when you travel to these cultures. I remember one time when I was in the south of China and we hiked all the way up to the top of, you know, where this temple was and the monks served us a meal when we when we got to the top in the temple. And it was just it was so simple.

It was just a very, very simple kind of one pot bowl of, you know, yummy. It was all vegetable broth. Like it was all actually plant based, not that like that's just their their way of eating.

[Kevin] (12:10 - 12:10)
Yeah.

[Michelle] (12:10 - 12:51)
And and a big and a big bowl of rice. And it was so simple and so flavorful and so satiating. And even the presentation of it was just so simple.

There's just these very not beautiful, very simple, rustic clay bowls, one big one with your vegetable soup pot kind of thing and and one of of white rice on the side. But there's just something magical. Right.

And there is. I think we've lost we've lost some of that magic to the simplicity. We have to have these complex things and, you know, Gordon Ramsay and plating.

And I mean, I love all of that, too. But there's just something beautiful.

[Kevin] (12:52 - 13:00)
At root, sometimes the simplicity works. I had a very similar experience in Myanmar when I went to I hiked up to a tea plantation.

[Michelle] (13:00 - 13:01)
I remember that.

[Kevin] (13:01 - 13:25)
And again, at the end of this long, long hike, hiking up a mountain, it was tough. We stopped at a farmer's hut, basically, and he was expecting us and he made this delicious. It was a pumpkin curry.

And I still remember it so clearly. And it and actually it's funny because my initial thought was, oh, my God, there's no protein. Like I'm going to be starving.

I've been hiking all this way.

[Michelle] (13:26 - 13:28)
And how Michelle had lectured you yet.

[Kevin] (13:28 - 14:00)
Exactly. And this is many years ago, I should say, back when Myanmar had just opened up basically. And I was so surprised.

It's like, no, I'm full and I'm full of energy and I feel great. And that was one of the most delicious meals to this day. Yeah, that is still one of the most delicious meals I've had, maybe because I was starving and that I'm sure helped.

And it was a beautiful atmosphere and all that. But it was so good and yet so simple. And it really was just pumpkin curry, similar to what you just said, in a bowl with a side of rice.

So simple.

[Michelle] (14:00 - 14:00)
Isn't it amazing?

[Kevin] (14:01 - 14:11)
Amazing. Anyways, this is not a travel podcast. For those of you just dialing in, no, just tuning in.

This is not a travel podcast. This is actually a nutrition podcast.

[Michelle] (14:11 - 14:16)
We just we just love bantering. And, you know, I think it's all part of the experience.

[Kevin] (14:17 - 14:20)
It's a living podcast. That's what it is. It's about life.

[Michelle] (14:20 - 14:26)
Exactly. So let's talk. Just let's round this out with eating out.

[Kevin] (14:26 - 14:27)
OK.

[Michelle] (14:27 - 14:36)
And yes, and because this is a great I don't know. I hope hopefully the listener that wanted some of these ideas is is digging some of these ideas.

[Kevin] (14:36 - 14:37)
Hopefully. Yeah.

[Michelle] (14:37 - 16:03)
So how do you eat out? If you were like me and you would drive through all the time, the first step is stop doing that. Start eating more meals at home.

Be more conscious about your food. And make eating out something that is very conscious and deliberate and not something that you just do because you're not willing to prioritize, you're not willing to plan, you're not willing to put yourself first, you're not willing to be serious about your goals. Make your make your your choices to eat out very deliberate and very enjoyable.

So one of the things that I did was by eating out so much less, we then could afford when we made that conscious choice to go out to eat, to go to really good quality restaurants with really good quality food. But that said, Kevin, there's a real interesting paradox here. Some of the easiest places to eat out and have really good portions of vegetables and and potato and everything on your plate is to go to a steakhouse.

Because if you think about it, you always have to order your sides, right? So if we're going out to dine with friends and they really want to go to one of these really big steakhouses, I just order the sides.

[Kevin] (16:03 - 16:05)
Makes sense. I never thought of that.

[Michelle] (16:06 - 16:27)
And I have a huge plate full of delicious vegetables and I ask them just to back off on the butter and things like that. I don't cook with it at home, so I don't make that big of a fuss about the oils and stuff when I eat out because I don't eat out all the time. So that's that's one thing to do is is just focus on it differently.

Now, you have to know your triggers.

[Kevin] (16:28 - 16:28)
Yes.

[Michelle] (16:28 - 16:43)
If your trigger is going to be I can't walk into that steakhouse without wanting like a giant steak, then maybe you make some other suggestions. Maybe you do Thai food. Maybe you do Mexican food.

Maybe you'd go to one of my favorite cuisines is Ethiopian.

[Kevin] (16:43 - 16:46)
Oh, I love Ethiopian.

[Michelle] (16:47 - 16:50)
Oh, so good. And such a nice experience.

[Kevin] (16:51 - 16:54)
Great for sharing with a bunch of people. It is.

[Michelle] (16:55 - 16:56)
Not so great in a global pandemic.

[Kevin] (16:57 - 17:01)
Yeah, but maybe not. Maybe not. I can't believe you and I haven't had Ethiopian.

[Michelle] (17:01 - 17:03)
I know we need to do that.

[Kevin] (17:03 - 17:03)
Totally.

[Michelle] (17:03 - 17:34)
There's two really great Ethiopian. And and you know what? That's the other gift of opening your mind to being willing to change and willing to try things and willing to stretch beyond those 10 things or those three restaurants you used to always go to all the time.

I never, ever in a million years probably would have even tried Ethiopian food if I hadn't made this change. So now I enjoy so many different cuisines and I'm cooking so many different cuisines that I never did before.

[Kevin] (17:34 - 17:34)
Right.

[Michelle] (17:35 - 17:40)
I used to make Kraft dinner and grilled cheese and Michelina's microwave.

[Kevin] (17:42 - 18:31)
Well, I know when it comes to eating out, I mean, one philosophy I've always had, which I think might help is actually two philosophies. One philosophy is I treat eating out like a little teeny tiny bit of travel, meaning I want to explore new places. I want to try something new.

And and eating out at a new restaurant, discovering a new restaurant is a super easy, super inexpensive way to try something new and to push your boundaries a little bit. So you can work a healthy aspect into this choice of choosing a place to go. My second rule of thumb is I never order, never, I shouldn't say never, but I try to avoid ordering anything in a restaurant that I could make at home.

[Michelle] (18:32 - 18:32)
Yeah.

[Kevin] (18:32 - 19:01)
Because I want I want a really complex dish that I don't have the patience or the know how or the ingredients or whatever. So like I can make a grilled cheese at home. I'm not going to order a grilled cheese at a restaurant.

I want some crazy, again, like Ethiopian's a perfect example. How else can I I'm not going to make injera at home. There's no way it seems way too complicated.

You need millet flour. It's it's just it's just complex.

[Michelle] (19:01 - 19:02)
I'd probably do it.

[Kevin] (19:02 - 19:28)
I'm sure you would. I'm sure you have, but I wouldn't. And you've got, you know, for people who don't know Ethiopian, just a quick, it's basically a massive pancake served on a platter made of millet flour.

And then you've got little bundles of like five or six different curries, shall we say? Although it's not like Indian curry, but little little stews, shall we say?

[Michelle] (19:29 - 19:31)
Yeah. It might be lentils. It might be spinach.

[Kevin] (19:31 - 20:15)
It might be a friend of mine, actually from London. I took I took a bunch of people from work from London to an Ethiopian place once, and most of them didn't like it. And one of my friends called it big bread and stew.

So that's kind of what it is. Shout out to Daryl. But it's basically injera, this massive pancake, millet flour pancake with a bunch of different stews on it.

I would never do that because I'm not going to make like six different stews because it's a little bit of everything. And then the injera. So that's a perfect opportunity for me to have something that I normally wouldn't have or I normally wouldn't make at home.

[Michelle] (20:15 - 20:16)
It's just so delicious.

[Kevin] (20:17 - 20:22)
So you can maybe treat eating out a little bit more like that, a little bit more of an adventure.

[Michelle] (20:22 - 20:23)
Like an adventure.

[Kevin] (20:23 - 20:30)
Try new things and branch out and then leave your 10 standards to your own home cooking.

[Michelle] (20:32 - 20:50)
So so another thing that I want to mention about eating out, because this usually is one of the bigger challenges for people, they can nail what they're doing inside their home. They have difficulty around holidays, around other people's birthday celebrations and things like that.

[Kevin] (20:50 - 20:52)
Yes, yes, yes.

[Michelle] (20:53 - 21:42)
So if you if you make that shift to I'm not going to eat out as much as I used to and I'm going to be more conscious about eating out and I'm going to value myself so much more that I'm going to choose the nicer restaurants, not the cheaper restaurants. Any chef that has pride in their work and is worth a grain of salt has no problem in these higher end restaurants whatsoever. If you talk to the server and say, can you please ask the chef if there's anything on their menu that they can make, in my case, plant based, and I'm willing to try any suggestion that they have or anything that they want to do.

My friends are often very astounded in the times that I've been with a group of people and I've done this.

[Kevin] (21:42 - 21:45)
I've been astounded when you've done this and we've been eating.

[Michelle] (21:46 - 21:48)
Oh, did I do it with you? That's great.

[Kevin] (21:48 - 21:50)
You have many times, many times.

[Michelle] (21:50 - 22:14)
And 100% of the time, I usually end up with something so much better that it's the envy of the other people at the table. They're like, oh my gosh, that looks so good. Because you know what?

I think chefs get bored with doing their same menu every night and just cranking things out, that they get excited when they're like, oh, I get to do something.

[Kevin] (22:14 - 22:14)
Here's a challenge.

[Michelle] (22:15 - 22:30)
And it's not hard. All they're doing is they're putting a bunch of different plant foods together and using their experience and their knowledge and their skill to build flavor. And they think any chef that is really good knows how to do this.

[Kevin] (22:30 - 22:59)
And if you're unsure, then just when you're making the reservation, just ask, just phone and make the reservation and just ask, would your chef be comfortable with? And then insert your dietary choice there, whether it's full plant based or whatever, and just ask ahead of time. And again, I think most restaurants will be pretty upfront for saying, yes, that'll be no problem or else, let me see.

That'll give you a good clue.

[Michelle] (23:00 - 23:08)
Yeah. And so it also tells you, I mean, if the chef can't, that's actually a pretty good indication you probably shouldn't be eating there.

[Kevin] (23:08 - 23:10)
Exactly. Good reason why not to make that reservation.

[Michelle] (23:11 - 23:23)
Because it means that they actually got a lot of stuff already pre-made, like from some sort of restaurant supply, in which case they can't leave the oil out or leave the cheese out.

[Kevin] (23:23 - 23:30)
Or maybe the chef isn't on site and it's just a bunch of, you know, sous chefs or something. And who knows?

[Michelle] (23:30 - 23:51)
Or they're not really, they're not actually chefs. They're just people cooking in the kitchen. So, yeah.

So, I mean, I think these are all good, good strategies. And, you know, like calling ahead is great. I do that often, Kevin.

It doesn't take very long. And it also helps me create my short list of the places that are worth spending the money.

[Kevin] (23:52 - 23:52)
Right, exactly.

[Michelle] (23:53 - 23:53)
To go to.

[Kevin] (23:54 - 24:08)
And of course, word of mouth. Like, if you also find a place that will do this, tell all your friends, whether or not they're plant-based or not. Like, because we want to encourage these restaurants that have this flexibility.

[Michelle] (24:08 - 24:12)
Or just more, more healthy, more plant-forward.

[Kevin] (24:12 - 24:12)
Yes.

[Michelle] (24:12 - 24:41)
You don't have to be 100%, but if you do, good for you. You're probably going to have the best health outcomes. So, it starts with these positive habits, it's positive self-talk, positive mindset, surrounding yourself with supportive people.

If the people that you're constantly hanging out with are going to poo-poo what you're doing, then maybe you need to find some new friends to go out with. Doesn't mean you have to cut them out of your life, but they're maybe not people you eat with.

[Kevin] (24:42 - 24:46)
Right, exactly. Find other activities not focused around food to spend time with.

[Michelle] (24:46 - 25:08)
And honestly, I would also suggest that's an opportunity to look at that situation differently. If you have friends that are knocking you down for wanting to do something positive for yourself, for your health, for your longevity, and make fun of you and knock you down for wanting to do that for yourself, are they really your friend?

[Kevin] (25:09 - 25:14)
This is now a relationship podcast as well. No, no, no.

[Michelle] (25:14 - 25:19)
Well, your friends should be people that help to build you up. Your friends should not be people that tear you down.

[Kevin] (25:19 - 25:20)
Exactly.

[Michelle] (25:21 - 25:33)
So, I think that would be an interesting way of looking at that too, that maybe you need to make some different choices of who you're spending your time with if they're actually knocking you down.

[Kevin] (25:33 - 26:03)
Well, it would be like if you had a friend group and you wanted to quit smoking. And if they said, no, why would you want to quit smoking? Puff, puff, puff.

Same type of concept that you would expect all of your friends to say, yes, amazing. Even if they personally smoke, it's still, yes, good for you. You're going to cut back on smoking.

You're going to quit smoking. Amazing. Same general principle.

You want supportive friends surrounding you. Like you, Michelle.

[Michelle] (26:04 - 26:10)
Oh, you too, Kevin. Because I think I've been here a lot longer than you have on this particular path.

[Kevin] (26:10 - 26:12)
I'm the noob, yeah.

[Michelle] (26:12 - 26:33)
And you've always been very supportive. You actually always had great restaurant ideas, right? That could accommodate all of our preferences.

You've never, never steered me wrong when we've gone out to eat. But the last thing I want to say about this, there is a balance here too. It's also not going to serve you to shove your choices down your friends' throats.

[Kevin] (26:34 - 26:35)
No, no.

[Michelle] (26:35 - 26:50)
And get all high and mighty. Oh, well, I'm doing this because it's healthier and you should do this too. Don't try to impose your beliefs on other people.

And it's just like with children. If you don't make a giant deal out of it, neither will they.

[Kevin] (26:50 - 26:51)
Correct.

[Michelle] (26:51 - 26:57)
If you don't make a giant deal out of what you're doing, your kids aren't going to make a big deal. Don't announce, we're having tofu tonight.

[Kevin] (26:59 - 27:03)
I've changed my Caesar salad recipe. It's healthy.

[Michelle] (27:03 - 27:14)
So the same thing goes of this when you're around your friends. So often, I've had to learn this too, because you know me, I get very excited when I discover something and I think it's great. I think everybody should do it.

[Kevin] (27:14 - 27:15)
You? No.

[Michelle] (27:16 - 28:27)
But, you know, when I'm at those meal situations, I'll have my conversation with the server and the person I'm with, if they aren't aware of this about me, because they might know me from a work situation. They don't actually know me that well, personally. They'll just say, oh, you're not having cheese or you're not having meat.

And I just say, no, it just makes me feel better if I avoid those foods. And I don't talk to them about my philosophy or about how I practice. If they start to ask me more questions, and they're genuinely interested in hearing about it, then I will share more.

But I didn't go to that social interaction to give them a nutrition lesson. Right? So I don't make a big deal about it.

They don't make a big deal about it. I also don't try to explain to the server. Often what I will say is, I'm allergic or I can't eat these foods.

And I don't really explain myself because there's so many allergies and things out there that that's not uncommon. And there's never been an easier time in history, actually, to go out and find options in reputable food establishments.

[Kevin] (28:28 - 28:35)
And you shouldn't have to tell your entire life story to the wait staff just to get your choice of food.

[Michelle] (28:35 - 28:37)
Yeah. They don't need to know.

[Kevin] (28:37 - 29:58)
Like, you shouldn't have to go through this huge song and dance. Like, it's just, hey, I choose not to eat something. And can you accommodate that?

Like, it's a simple yes or no. And as you say, most good chefs will absolutely say, yes, I'm up for the challenge. And that's it for the episode.

Once again, we want to thank our listener for providing this incredible discussion topic to us. And if you have any questions that maybe Michelle didn't answer or any other questions at all, you can email us at n4noobs at gmail.com. We really look forward to reading your emails.

Until then, I'll say, eat your greens. And I guess I'm responsible for taking Michelle's catchphrase. Be real, everyone.

This has been Nutrition for Noobs. We hope you're a bit more enlightened about how your fantastic and complicated body works with the food you put into it. If you have a question or a topic you'd like Michelle to discuss, drop us a line at n4noobs@gmail.com.