[Kevin]
Hey, Michelle, how are you doing?

[Michelle]
I'm doing great, Kevin. I'm sitting here sipping one of my favorite teas in my Powered by Plants mug.

[Kevin]
Excellent. And I'm sipping a tea too. It's not in, it's just in a generic mug, but it's one of my favorite mugs because it's a beautiful shade of red.

I'm super excited today because we have a very special guest and I think, say hello special guest.

[Chef Kim]
Hello, special guest.

[Kevin]
I love it. I love it. She's already into the vibe of the Nutrition for Noobs.

This is amazing. So we have Chef Kim Sutherland here joining us for this episode. And I'll give just a little bit of background.

Kim is the Manager of Nutrition and Wellness at the Ronald McDonald House, Southwestern Ontario Chapter. And she's the creator of Beautifully Nourished by Chef Kim. She's spent over 25 years in the food and beverage industry, cooking with many celebrities in her career, including Chef Gordon Ramsay.

She's also cooked for Pearl Jam, The Hip, and a bunch of NHL teams as well. So very diverse background. And is one of the first chefs within a Ronald McDonald House in Canada.

She's created nutrient-rich, delicious meals for their kids and families, and has fundamentally transformed the way that RMH feed and serve all of those who stay with them. So I'm really excited to hear her journey and welcome Kim. And I think, Michelle, I will pass it over to you to kick this off.

[Michelle]
Oh, yeah, I'm so excited to have Kim here. So Chef Kim and I have collaborated several times back when I had the Tea House. And she is literally the most renowned, I think, vegan chef in the area.

And some of our listeners may be wondering, what is Chef Kim doing at Ronald McDonald House? And what is Ronald McDonald House? But this is the reason why I wanted to have you on, Kim, because this is so empowering.

And it's not what anybody would expect. And you're just you're a real changemaker on the ground. And so I want you, if you could, first, could you just tell our listeners a little bit about what Ronald McDonald House is and sort of because it is not McDonald's proper, right?

[Chef Kim]
You can imagine my friends when I said I was going to work at, my industry friends, when I said I was coming to work at the Ronald McDonald House and they're like, like, so you're flipping burgers? Like, what is that? What does that even mean, Kim?

[Kevin]
Big Macs all around.

[Chef Kim]
So it's funny, we very rarely have any sort of McDonald's products in the Ronald McDonald House, but we are heavily supported as they are our forever and founding partner. So McDonald's helped create the partnership between the pediatric oncology doctor that was in Philadelphia. It's kind of where it started about 50 years ago.

1974 was the first Ronald McDonald House opened and the first Canadian one opened 40 years ago in 1984. So this is coming up on to our 40th anniversary this year. So what we are is basically we are a house that is our house specifically in London, Ontario is 150 steps to the hospital.

We help support families that come from out of town. So our house, in order to stay in our house, you have to live more than 55 kilometres away from the house. And we provide all the support for areas that you can't get pediatric care in that area.

A lot of those will be airlifted to London. So Timmins, Sault Ste. Marie, Thunder Bay, all of those areas, that's where we are essentially their local charity.

We have some families who travel 19 plus hours to get to the house in London. Yeah. We're the local charity of Thunder Bay, if you can imagine.

Yeah. So we support all of the families that have to come into town. And in the Ronald McDonald House, we have this one here.

We have 40 bedrooms. We're about to expand to 80 bedrooms and help support 200 people. We have 100 people in the house right now.

And we have we provide individual rooms. We have meals that we provide daily. We have a breakfast like a continental breakfast.

And then we do a warm dinner every day that allows the families to come back from the hospital, whether they have a child that's staying at the house. So we have a couple of different four different pillars of of kids. But.

Basically, any child that is in any form of treatment, trauma has had an accident, anything that is staying within the hospital or needs to be at the hospital, their families can stay close. We also have a section for our high risk pregnancy mom. So those moms that live out of town that need to be close to the hospital have a spot in the house.

So we have 40 bedrooms in this house, ranging from single bed and queen size to double beds, more of a family style. We have a craft room, we have a games room, we have a treasure room, we have a theater like a family room downstairs where families can just come and be together and watch a movie night. And then in the kitchen portion, we have a commercial set up kitchen that we have volunteer groups that come in and help create a healthy, nourishing meal for the families.

So we do this seven days a week in our house. We have we make everything from scratch. We get it ordered in or brought in from local suppliers or local farmers.

A lot of our donations come from former families that have stayed here, meaning me and a team of volunteers will make a dinner and provide it for the families. So you don't have to worry about having something to eat and having something nutritious to eat like families. We and how we geared the direction that this house goes is that we know that families have enough pressure trying to understand Dr. Lingo, be there to support their kids, be there to support their family, whether their child is in treatment and whatever their child is in treatment for. So we create a really nutritious meal to help them with the cognitive attention span, with the energy that it requires to be that parent and function at their highest and highest ability. So the serve the motto of the house or the mission is to serve more and serve better. So in the serving better, we do everything we can to help that support that family so they can stay close to their families.

[Michelle]
Awesome.

[Chef Kim]
So you've really transformed the menu here. Absolutely. So we've currently we took it from a as I say, we redefined what comfort food is.

So my version of comfort food is not the same as a gluten free mom's version of comfort food or a halal or a vegan family or basically everyone this day and age eats a different style of food in many cases. So we make sure that there's something provided for all of those families and make sure that they don't have to worry about where they're going to be getting their dinner from that day and they can just focus on their kids. So we have there are four pillars.

Our first pillar is our oncology kids. So our pediatric oncology, they would be any of our kids that are currently in treatment or whether they're staying at the house or they're an outpatient. So sometimes the kids will stay in the house.

Sometimes they'll stay in the hospital and then they'll come back and forth. And for them, a lot of times their treatment depends on where they are nutritionally, whether their neutrophils have gone low. If their bodies can handle another round of chemo.

So we've really taken an opportunity to create a support and safe space for those kids to have the highest nutritional content. But the challenge with their things is they also have crazy cravings. So their steroids and chemo often cause them to go from wanting really salty things to wanting really sweet things, to wanting nothing at all, to wanting everything.

And that's all in about a three and a half minute time frame. So what the house has done and one of our pillars is we've really recognized these kids and these different cravings. So we've created a space where those parents can come in and create those items.

So we have all those items in the house that support those different cravings and make them available to the families to be able to support their child where they're at and make sure they're getting the highest nutritional content.

[Michelle]
How are you getting these kids who probably aren't used to healthy food? Right. They've probably been been treated like sick kids and people wanting to comfort them, wanting to give them treats rather than thinking about what's actually going to support their their treatment and their recovery.

How do you even get them interested?

[Chef Kim]
So a lot of times we and like we here at the house have a very open kitchen concept. So that means any of the kids can come in and see what we're doing while our dinner group is making dinner. They can become engaged in it.

A lot of the times I'll have the kids tasting the berries to make sure that they are sweet or see if we need to add anything to them or. So cool. And then we always make jokes about the level of quality control and how is it that Chef Kim stays in shape when she's always eating everything all day long?

That's not. That would be me. Yeah.

That's an ongoing joke in the house, too. So the and I always make it so I'm trying to we're trying to engage the kids as much as possible. We take them and show them in the pantry.

I said there is we have a massive pantry, a massive walk in fridge and freezer, and we have fun things like a freeze dry machine and that. So bringing the kids back and allowing them to see what we're doing and be curious about it and then be part of it. And I really find like that to them is or that to us is an investment in a lifelong relationship with food.

And that is kind of one of the key things that I'm most passionate about is creating this positive relationship. So I can usually always get a kid that we have these little balls of butter. So if there's a kid that wants to add butter to their mashed potatoes or something, they come in a fun form where the kids can add balls, little tiny balls of butter to their mashed potatoes or there's fresh strawberries or fresh blueberries or even freeze dried strawberries.

So anything along those lines, the kids can get excited about it and engaged in it. A lot of times they will have tasted something before and recognize that taste as something they enjoy. So providing that to them and then telling them about the added bonus of how it's going to make them healthier and stronger.

And they seem to they they connect to that because they don't want to stay in the position that they're in. And you can really tell in their little bodies are fighting for it that that they recognize that that really nutritional dense food is making them feel better.

[Michelle]
I bet they're having fun coming into the kitchen. Oh, they love it.

[Chef Kim]
All right. And they all have little chef's hats and we give them little aprons and they get to play. And if they make a mess, hey, that's OK.

We clean it up afterwards and it's no big deal. And it really I find it really allows them to connect to like something fun and gets them out of their normal reality now, which is usually going to the hospital. And the house has a like a no poke policy.

So you can't do needles and things like that. We don't practice. We don't do a lot of the medicine side of things in the house.

It's a safe space where a kid can be a kid.

[Michelle]
And so they don't feel like this is a medical environment. They feel like this is their home for the day.

[Chef Kim]
This is. Yeah. And that's the way that we see it, is that we're guests in our family's homes right now.

So we treat them that way. Sometimes the families will come to downstairs in pajamas and that is totally OK sometimes. So even the house doesn't have a like a dress code policy.

Our dress is very casual because we never want someone to feel uncomfortable in where they are or remembering where they're not. A lot of times for people that their reality has shifted and the families have been uprooted and are in the house now in this treatment, if they see someone in a business suit or going looking like they should be going to meetings and things like that, that sometimes can trigger the reality of what they are not part of in their own working environment for moms and dads and things like that or things that they would have been doing before prior to being uprooted in the house. So we really try and make sure that it's a very comfortable environment and everybody feels comfortable to show up exactly as they are.

[Kevin]
What I think really stood out to me as you're describing this is the exposure that you're giving to the kids, like you're exposing them to potentially different types of foods than they've had normally or something that, as you said, maybe they tried once but didn't really know what it was, but they said they liked it so they can walk into the pantry and explore. Because I found even, you know, when I take my son to the grocery store and I encourage him to, you know, oh, that looks interesting, OK, well, let's buy it and try it. And what's the worst case scenario?

You don't like it? No problem. But, you know, try new things and just get exposed.

And that engages them and gets them more interested in food, which then you can start having the discussion about the nutrition of food.

[Michelle]
I'm so excited about this notion of the kids going into the kitchen and being involved because I had some experience with this. I tried to get involved in changing the lunch program at my kid's school. The hot lunches or the parent, the parent sort of lunches that were prepared once a month were usually like pizza ordered in or McDonald's ordered in or like something like that was definitely just garbage, fast food and no nutrients in it.

And I tried to influence that. And so I asked them to let me take take charge of it one month. And it was a it was a whole day.

It was a fun day or something they were having. So I had my daughter and a whole bunch of her friends over, went and got all the ingredients and just had all the kids in my kitchen and said, OK, so we're going to make some healthy wraps. What vegetables do you like?

What do you think would be good on this? And we put really yummy stuff on it and the kids were doing it and I was helping them roll them so they were tight. We wrapped them up in cellophane.

I put them in a cooler and dropped it off at one of the other parents houses to take to the school the next day. And my daughter phoned me when I was at work and said, mommy, we all ran outside to get the wraps that we made and we couldn't find them anywhere. And my initial reaction was, wow, that's awesome.

They were the first thing to go. And she said, no, actually, they didn't let the kids have them. They gave them to all the all the volunteers, all the all the grownups, because they didn't think we'd like them.

And I was just absolutely heartbroken because my whole I was so excited with that activity because my my inclination proved true in my kitchen. If you involve the kids, they get excited about about the food and they get excited about the colors and making it and assembling it and having that personal relationship. And I think that's that is the crucial thing that we have lost.

We have lost this connection to our food because we're also we're providing again.

[Chef Kim]
Food is a lifelong relationship. You will be invested with food for your entire life. So being able to have that conversation with kids and start them early from a place of excitement and exploration and engagement versus boundaries and rules and in many cases bullying, there's so much negative we do.

The second you were never let your kids to leave the table until they ate their vegetables. Right. That's ground zero for a poor relationship with food.

So being able to create a space where they can come in and have fun and play. And I say I will say my kids, I never used to cook with curry at home. And it wasn't until my kids came back from a potluck at school where they were in a very culturally diverse school.

They came back from a potluck and they required and said, mom, can you make something with curry? Like, we really love it. And I was like, yeah, absolutely.

And and from then on, we it's a regular item we have in our house. And I said I wasn't introducing it into my house because it wasn't something I was used to. But once my kids got used to it and they were the ones that were coming asking questions, now it's a regular conversation that we have around our dinner table.

[Michelle]
So awesome.

[Chef Kim]
Yeah. And I think that's one of the coolest things about here is bringing those kids into the conversation. And the fact that in many cases, the parents will it's a time out for the parents to to allow someone else to kind of supervise their kids for a little while.

And the kids don't ever seem to they seem to go very willingly in to see all the fun things, whether it be the walk in fridge, because they've never seen a walk in fridge before.

[Kevin]
It's an old fridge.

[Chef Kim]
You can walk into Chef Kim. I'm like, yeah, we can go right inside it. Do you guys want to go inside the freezer?

We can see if there's any fun snacks in there. And they're like, you can go in the freezer. Do we need a coat?

So being able to see all of those things that explore and get them excited about it, to me, is one of the greatest investments we as parents and as community can make for those kids in their future.

[Kevin]
Kim, do you take the parents back there, too?

[Chef Kim]
Sometimes. Sometimes I do if they want to. But most of the times it's just the kids are super curious and they love it.

And it's kind of a almost like a special thing that just the kids get to do and then they get to go and pick their snacks. And in many cases, if they're having a challenging time connecting with food or not wanting to eat anything, going back there and just showing them all the fun things. Because, again, the parents get to see grocery stores, but the the kids don't often a lot of kids these days are not taken to the grocery stores or don't have an opportunity to come back and I'll say to them, I'm like, hey, do you guys want to try this?

This is like a dried cranberry. And they're like, OK, and we'll just stand back there and have snacks and and really kind of give them a chance to look around and take it all in and show them different things and talk about different things and things that I like. And I often find in many cases the kids are significantly more engaged without their parents around because they're either looking for their parents for approval or looking to them to like, do I like this?

And when they're just with me in that space, we're having that conversation and I'm like, oh, like, do you want to try it? And you can totally try it. You want to try another one?

OK, we should try a couple of them. And then they seem to get really engaged very quickly as an opportunity to expand.

[Kevin]
That's amazing. And that creates a hopefully a lifelong connection with food and trying new things and, you know, having a healthy relationship with food.

[Michelle]
Yeah, well, you're redefining what is a treat, right? Kevin and I talked about this in one of our previous episodes, that our society tends to reward the incorrect types of foods as a treat. And that is where some of this eating dysfunction begins.

It sounds like you're actually also you're not only making it fun, Kim, but I would suggest that you're making this a mindful eating activity as well.

[Chef Kim]
Yes, absolutely. Of course, the mindful eating and meditation practitioner in me goes for that all the time, because then again, we're saying we're back and we're engaged in the moment of the eating and the taste of it and how that we feel eating that and being just very intentional about those little snacks that we're having. And then a lot of times there'll be that, oh, yeah, you know what?

I don't like that one. I'm like, OK, you know what? You don't have to like that one, but do me a favor and just try it a second bite.

And I said, if you try a second bite and you still don't like it, well, then we just won't come back for that as a snack. But 99% of the time they try the second bite and they're like, oh, OK, that's OK. And I said and then I always tell them about their taste buds, like take your taste buds that will first try to register and then you need that second try to really engage and understand what it tastes like.

So then they they kind of go, oh, OK, like where's my and it was quite funny. Actually, one of the little girls was sticking out her tongue, looking at her taste buds, and she's like, my taste buds don't like this stuff. And I was like, listen, let me talk to your taste buds.

She stuck her tongue out at me with her taste buds is when the people came around the corner and they're like, what are you two doing? And I was like, I'm telling her taste buds like we need to start thinking outside the box here. We need to start enjoying a couple of different things.

And yeah, so we had a very entertaining conversation about just being open to trying new things. And you know what? I think the every single kid that has had an opportunity to be in this space has left as a different kid in a different place.

And that to me is one of the most exciting things about it is that even if we are part of their life for a small snippet that we have set in those memories and that foundation, that there is an alternative way to the way some people are doing it.

[Michelle]
You know, I was looking up a study here in Frontiers in Nutrition, which is a really respected journal, and it was talking about childhood cancer survivors. It's interesting that, you know, the good news is over 85 percent of childhood cancer patients do become long term survivors. We're really we've been really successful as a society globally at moving the needle on extending life and cancer rates.

But I just wanted the reason I bring this up is because what Kim and what the House is doing is so powerful, Kevin, because even though the survival rates are really, really high, those survivors end up being at much higher risk for other morbidities as they age.

[Chef Kim]
That's what I was wondering.

[Michelle]
Yeah. And and it's because the existing literature suggests that childhood cancer survivors maintain poor dietary intake and nutritional status for the rest of their lives. And therefore, even though the cancer cure rates improve, you know, technically the role of diet and nutrition, the study says, in mitigating many of the most common adverse long term health comes has gained significant interest.

So they're finding, for example, that even though their survival rate exceeds 85 percent, they end up having, you know, four to five comorbid conditions by the time they're age 50 and over. So you could be very well playing a very big role in changing that trajectory for these kids that that they do not necessarily need to look at a future of continued declining health and comorbidity to manage for the rest of their lives. Those are those are the future inpatients for other reasons.

Those are future E.D. visits and, you know, not a very nice life for them. And and continuing to compound the problem on the system that we're working so hard to to try to change. And it's it's just, you know, it always seems to come back to the fundamentals, to the basics.

What are you putting in your body? Are you giving the body what it needs to do the very best it can to heal? Because we can only do so much with with other scientific intervention.

There is only one fuel for our body and it's and it's food. Totally. It's so interesting to me.

[Chef Kim]
in many ways, and I'll just call it out, blind faith that people put in the food industry, in the ingredients and stuff. And I said, people's bodies aren't changing. Like our bodies have not changed since ever, but the way in which we're producing food has changed drastically.

And when you're in a position where you know what you know, then you have to do better. So it's either people are looking at it just with blinders on, not wanting to know, or just feeling that it's too challenging to figure out or what it might be. But I think those are the ones that I almost push so much further forward and test their boundaries, especially with regards to how open they are about eating healthy food and just wherever that I can drop in those thoughts.

There was one night that we made a dish in the house and it went over unbelievably. People were getting second, third plates of it as a skink for takeout containers to take extra. And I went out to the- That's awesome.

Yeah. And I went out to the dining room and I laughed at them for one. I was like, just so you know, there was nine of the top most hated vegetables in that dish and you guys all ate every single one of them.

And they were like, ah, darn you, chef Kim, darn you. And I was like, so next time I tell you, you're eating. And it's funny because ever since then, we go through a ridiculous amount of Brussels sprouts in the house.

We roast off Brussels sprouts. We'll go through 40, 50 pounds at a dinner. That's almost half a pound per person just in Brussels sprouts that they have that opportunity to have.

And I said- You're getting those wonderful sulfur compounds and- Can you come and cook for me, please?

[Kevin]
That seems like if you can get, because I hate Brussels sprouts.

[Michelle]
I shouldn't say that.

[Kevin]
I don't like how I've eaten them previously.

[Michelle]
You have a dysfunctional relationship with Brussels sprouts.

[Kevin]
Exactly. But it sounds like if you were cooking them for me, it would be amazing.

[Chef Kim]
Well, that's the funny thing. That actually has posed a challenge in what happened when families go home and there's no chef Kim there. So kind of where the direction we're going with our four pillars is to provide that space between the house and home.

So how do we support you after you leave us? How do we continue our support and you knowing that there's a team here for you and being able to answer those questions? Because some of our families go home after 400 days without a roll of toilet paper.

They have no clue what's in their cupboards and that. So we're working with a bunch of partners to put together packages so the families can go home with them. That's amazing.

[Michelle]
Like a discharge plan.

[Chef Kim]
Yeah. And then recipe cards. Here's your top five things that you enjoyed while you were in the house.

Here's how you make them. Take them home with you or a book or some sort of resource for them to go home with and that. Because I said, if we send you home without any of the tools that you had in the house, then have we really done our job?

Have we come full circle? Like to add to me is I can, if I send you home with all the tools and then you know you're supported and it's your choice to move forward with your relationship with food and your eating habits, then that's your choice. But we've given you all the tools that you need to get to that point.

[Michelle]
I wish this was available for the general public before their kid gets sick.

[Chef Kim]
You know what I mean? I know. I do.

Oh my gosh. Do I ever. Like I said, this to me is again that conversation.

And it was funny when we, because like we had mentioned, we've kind of overhauled the entire food system at the Ronald McDonald house and how we do it. And our house in London is leading the way with like a wrecking ball. I made a joke that I came in like a wrecking ball into this and I'm taking no prisoners.

We're leading the way in which we're doing it. Like our board members love the fact that we're talking about wellness in the house. Like that is the top conversation for us and nutrition in partnership with that.

So I have no problem saying the name Ronald McDonald. I was in the same sentence as I say, nutrition and wellness, knowing that that supports there from our McDonald's partners and they get on board and they see the goodness of it. So being able to have these conversations and have all of the people who are taking advantage of this to me is one of the greatest things.

But I said to them when we were selling them on the direction we were going, I said, wouldn't you all love to have the tools that I have at your disposal? So we're giving these families all of these tools. That to me is a no brainer because what I know to my absolute core after feeding people for so long is that if they had an option of eating really well, feeling good and knowing how to do it, everybody would.

Nobody wakes up and goes, man, I really hope I eat something crappy today. And then I'm going to need a nap and I'm going to feel bloated and awful. That's not a thing.

But there seems to be this stigma around that, oh, well, you're a healthy eater and calling people out because they want to enjoy healthy food. And that in itself is a form of disordered eating. If you're calling someone else out because of the food choices they've made when they want to eat healthy food, well, then shame on you because you're literally taking a shot at that person's well-being.

And that I'm not okay with in the slightest way. That's where teenage mental health and eating disorders come in. And then we have our trauma families.

So our trauma families are those kids who have had some sort of traumatic occurrence that has landed them in our house. And a perfect example I'll use, we had a mom who had her childhood collapsed that day. Mom was a gluten-free and dairy-free mom by choice.

She was working on her own nutrition habits. They ended up being airlifted to the house after giving her child CPR in her living room. They ended up being airlifted to the house.

Then she comes in. This poor mom was in such a traumatic state. Getting a conversation out of her was a challenge when she arrived.

So we've created a program to support those parents. So when they're ready, they'll meet us at the dinner table in the dining room where everyone is. But until then, maybe they just need small packages of really healthy, nutritious snacks.

So we have a program that we bring volunteers in just to create healthy snacks in the house. So maybe that family's welcome bag has a couple extra of those snacks. So mom knows she always has something in her pocket and that she can eat when she needs it.

But it also becomes a therapeutic thing to just sit in that space as you're having that. Maybe it's just cranberries sometimes. Maybe it's peanuts or whatever, any cashews, anything like that.

And it's just little tiny bite-sized things that become that meal and snack itself becomes the therapy that mom needs until they're ready to meet us with a plate of food.

[Michelle]
And to feel like somebody did that with love for your well-being and you weren't, you didn't have to resort to a random vending machine in the hospital somewhere. Totally.

[Chef Kim]
And go looking for it. The fight or flight feeling that sets in when people don't have the basic need of food provided for them is sometimes a bigger stress than what their family is going through. That automatic notion of, okay, where am I going to get food?

How am I going to take care of myself? Where's my child going to get food? What if we eat this certain way?

That's always such a... And of course, everyone eats different these days. So being able to have staff on that are diverse enough and can help support and create that is our guiding light as to where we're going for all of our families here.

And then we have our new and nursing moms. That's our other category. So as much as we would love to think that all birth plans go exactly as planned, we're a hundred percent...

I don't know anybody who's ever had a child that their birth plan, how they planned it. I didn't even plan mine out because I knew it wasn't going to go any way possible. So for a lot of those families that have gone into early labor or have had a child that had to stay in the hospital with our twins, anything like that, making sure that that mom is in this high level of stress, doing everything possible to keep her in the healthiest condition possible and keep herself nourished.

Because at that point, she goes from being the carrier to the caregiver very quickly and needs to make sure that she is continuing to eat the same way she did while she was pregnant to support those babies, even though they're on the outside.

[Michelle]
So important. So important that breast milk is the lifeline for that child and it's the perfect food as long as mom is nourished, right? So that's so important.

You mentioned something at the very beginning about changing the relationship with comfort food. And that's what comes to mind for me, Kim, because even people in my experience and clients that I have worked with, like not kids, although young 20-somethings dealing with cancer that I have supported as a nutrition coach, and everyone else in their experience believes that they're helping when they drop off fast food or favorite foods or make brownies, cookies, things like that. And they think that they're being loving and they're being helpful, but they're actually perpetuating basically food devoid of any actual beneficial nutrition to help support the body to heal.

And it puts those individuals in an awkward position where they don't want to offend the person that tried to do something nice for them. But they also, they themselves, I don't think even necessarily are confident at those early stages of what their does need. So when I work with them, we coach them around those things, but how do you handle that on such a large basis?

It's easier for me dealing one-on-one, but you're dealing with a whole population of families and a whole diverse population of sick kids. How do you address making that paradigm shift of what it means to have comfort food?

[Chef Kim]
So we've kind of taken it because ours, it was kind of a niche market that we had to very gently navigate because we have unbelievable volunteers. The Ronald McDonald House Charities would not run if we did not have the incredible volunteers that we have. So we had hundreds of them that come in and were making dinner for the families, and they would bring all of their groceries, and they would bring what they believed was a really great comfort food idea.

Well, the one day when we were switching over, so we changed from that system to having all the ingredients in-house that we source, the house sources through my role, and we bring in a high-quality item. And the interesting thing was that we got an opportunity to really see how people would or would not eat on their own. And they would have, some people would be like, yeah, yeah, no, there was a perfect example, and I don't want to call them out, but they'll be totally fine with me calling them out, a group that made a chicken pot pie regularly.

Wonderful chicken pot pie. The families loved it. People always ate it.

And I had said to them one day, hey, have you ever thought about doing your chicken pot pie a little bit differently? Because it was like cream of celery soup, poured over previously frozen bag of vegetables, previously frozen chicken, and then bisquick on top of that.

[Kevin]
Are you talking about my mother's recipe?

[Chef Kim]
Are you talking about her? Sounds familiar. I'm not calling out your mom, Kev.

Oh, I'm calling her out.

[Kevin]
I'm just saying.

[Chef Kim]
So being able to, I said to them the one day, I said, oh, are you guys going to sit down and eat? And the woman that was making it said, no, I think I don't really enjoy eating this. And I was like, okay, why don't you enjoy eating it?

She's like, oh, well, it actually really upsets my stomach. And I was like, okay, so why are you feeding it to the family? She's like, well, I thought that was a really good idea.

And blah, blah, blah. And I said, what about if you change the ingredients that you were putting into it? And they were like, oh, well, everybody really likes this.

And I said, okay. I said, I'm going to tell you this with love, but your dinner has 300% the daily intake of sodium for a human being. 300%.

It's literally a heart attack in a bowl by the time you serve it. So what if we went a different direction with it? And they're like, okay, okay, we'll give you one try.

So what they had determined as comfort food before with a little bit of a rework where we steamed the vegetables that we cut up the vegetables fresh, steamed them, made them into a really nice bechamel sauce, covered it with puff pastry, still a beautiful comfort dish, but without all the additives and preservatives that they would have had before. We were making everything from scratch. We essentially changed the entire concept around it.

And I said, all of those people who I have this conversation with about what redefining comfort means really jump on board. They get it when it's a very simple conversation. It's just the belief that that's what people need in that time.

And I think that goes back to a very archaic way of the way people used to do it. There's no reason why when you bring someone something like a piece of comfort food, that it can't be a really great salad, that it can't be a really great soup. Like why we automatically revert to these sugary processed types of things, which there was a grandmother when I had first started at the house and she made a joke that she had put on 90 pounds when she started coming to the house.

And I was not okay with this. So being able to understand what that looked like for these families and being able to support them was a huge piece of that and being able to reconnect those parents with what it meant to be eating and feeding themselves well.

[Kevin]
Right. So Kim, all this is bringing up one big question in my mind. And really it comes down to is anyone noticing?

Because it seems like you're doing a ton of really incredibly interesting stuff in your chapter. And correct me if I'm wrong, correct me if I'm misunderstood, but I'm wondering if anyone outside of your specific environment is noticing and saying, hey, look what Chef Kim is doing over here and maybe other Ronald McDonald houses or other hospitals or whatever. Because once in a while, it comes up in the news where maybe a school wants to remove junk food vending machines or changing the cafeteria, or as Michelle was saying about her story about the parent-teacher lunch days and such.

And there's always some element of resistance against that. And I'm wondering if anyone's noticing the amazing stuff you're doing and if it is broadening out anywhere. Big time.

[Chef Kim]
It's funny. Yeah. We actually had my COO, Matthew, incredible big thinking guy, they were on a call and there was a member from RMHC Global on the call and said, just so you know, we're aware of what's happening in the house.

We see what you guys are doing and what Chef Kim's doing. And we're starting to make waves and we see you guys, the waves you're making. It's so interesting because our house, there's not a nutrition and wellness has never been a category before of a job.

It's never even been even spoke of until we started to speak of it and put those pieces in place. And I said, I believe I was waiting for the RMH and the RMH was waiting for me because I'm a big thinker and I've done a lot of really, really big things over the years. So for me to come in and put down a foundation and give the tools to grow from that in such an easy manner, that's easy for me.

And if it means that I get to rock the boat and have more people on board with eating healthy and eating a certain lifestyle, making those changes and empowering themselves to make those changes, that to me is even more incredible. So they're definitely, people are noticing and the conversation instead of just being about having food is now about having nutritious food and having a well-balanced meals and the charity overall, their metric this year is to provide one meal, hot meal per day for all the families. We've been doing that for a long time, but not everyone has.

So really being able to excel in that. And for us, we're just going to keep growing and growing and growing with the things that we can do and how far we can expand and just give everyone an opportunity to have a seat at the table and be part of the conversation.

[Michelle]
Isn't she amazing? So correct me if I'm wrong, Kim, but you also have gotten attention of other units in the hospital. So people that aren't aware the Ronald McDonald House for Southwest Ontario is actually kind of in the parking lot of the Victoria Hospital campus.

So it's a very close proximity to all of the other inpatient and outpatient units. So just talk a little bit, tell Kevin what's going on there.

[Chef Kim]
Yeah. So we have a family room in the hospital as well, up on the sixth floor, which provides support for our local families. And I said, that is, it's funny, we started to, so when my role started and we kind of overhauled the kitchen program and what it looks like, we upped the resources we send over to the family room.

So we're sending 25 to 50 meals a day over to that space. And that supports our local families that are coming from like our local area. So if you're staying in the house, you have to live more than 50 kilometers away from the house.

I think somewhere around there, there's a debate about 54 or 44 kilometers, but you cannot live with inside the city to stay in the house, but you can use our support system on the sixth floor of the family room. And we started bringing a lot of the meals up to there. So the same thing we're having in the house, we would make a smaller portion and send it over, making it available to families.

And it's unbelievable conversation that people are having and they're sending people down from different, the sixth, seventh, eighth floor, whether it be the staff or family members of people. So our awareness has increased massively for people that are there and they get it. They're very much getting on board with, okay, this is right down the hall.

So really great, healthy meal. I don't necessarily want to leave bedside with my child. I want to stay on the same floor.

So we're making that nutrition accessible to everybody. And people are, it's funny, they have a conversation in the hallway and they're like, hey, did you go see what's in for lunch today? There's a Thai chicken soup or curried butternut squash soup.

That's what you want to go down and get kind of thing, which is such an incredible problem or challenge to have because having that many people on board eating really great food, again, is that to me is setting a foundation for so much in a wellness in how they move forward. But it's also, yeah, it also gives them an opportunity to really kind of create those relationships that their kids are there watching them. Your kids are seeing what you're eating.

So when you're there and you're enjoying that dish that's in front of you and you feel that comfort that's coming from having someone provide that food for you, maybe like changing the narrative to the, my comfort food is the fact that someone is actually feeding me right now. Right.

[Kevin]
Like that is and feeding you something and feeding you something that is nourishing your body and that's healthy, delicious. First off, yes, that's important, but that's good. And not 300 times your sodium intake and totally, you know, like really not not good for you in a sense.

[Michelle]
What I'm hearing you talk about, Kim, is and we've talked about this endlessly on different episodes of the podcast, like even though like whole food plant based as as as pure as possible is is my values. It's it's not necessary to be 100 percent. It it's you know, it's that the healthy range is, you know, within 80 to 90 percent of whole foods, leaving, you know, kind of ideally 10 percent when it comes to chronic disease within 20 percent, you can get away with it.

You know, your outcomes are going to be better if you get closer to 10. But what I'm hearing you talk about is not necessarily about removing the chicken from people's diets. It's about increasing the vegetables and the whole grains and the legumes and and taking that positive approach, not about what I'm taking away.

It's about what I'm adding in. And I I'm really a believer in that because I I think whenever we especially when you're dealing with an eating disorders population, potentially to whenever you create a scarcity or a sense of lack or a sense that I'm taking things away from you, that's very threatening for people. Totally.

And the much more nurturing approach is about let's let's change things a little bit and change the composition of what we're doing. But let's really make it fresh and natural and whole. And let's let's add more Brussels sprouts.

You know, like you say, the five hated vegetables will just dress it up differently so that you don't even recognize it as something that you didn't like before. Totally.

[Chef Kim]
And it's so interesting because we are very lucky that we have suppliers and we actually have a family who donates and raises three cows to give to the house and they raise them as if they are their family and they are non GMO, non no steroids, all like the cleanest cattle you could possibly imagine. And let me tell you, not in a factory farm, not at all. And they are they're an incredible family and they will donate 250 pounds, usually three times a year to the house of of ground beef.

And the quality of it is incredible. So even if the I will say to the families here, like even if you're going to choose to have whatever it is you choose, make sure it's the best quality. Make sure it's a high quality product, an organic product, somewhere you know where it's come from.

Don't just get the bulk discount of food. Like it has cortisol coursing through the veins of the animal before it's slaughtered, right? Like the list of things is endless.

But if you're going to do it, do it right and do it. Make it like a conscious choice to eat a certain way. And if that's how you're like, we always make sure we have multiple options of things available to people.

So they have an opportunity to have extra veggies. They have an opportunity to have the extra stuff. So it's always there for them.

And sometimes some of them don't even choose to go the way they would before. They are very open minded to eat a different way. And that to me is even if it's for one night, then that's a success because we've opened your eyes and created a more positive relationship with you.

And you feel loved and supported while we're doing it.

[Michelle]
Sometimes it takes it takes steps or takes baby steps and and what you're introduced to to sort of shift your eating patterns over time. You're not going to like I don't think even even in the purest of worlds, you wouldn't ever expect to turn anybody whole food plant based in one or two nights, especially in a time of crisis for their family. It's just about doing better.

Even just introducing more vegetables on the plate is going to do tremendous things in treatment. We know that, you know, nutritionally rich diets actually make things like your your drug therapies more effective because it increases the the resiliency of the healthy cells and the effectiveness of the drug. So it's like there's no downside, right?

[Chef Kim]
That's what I keep saying. I'm like, hello. Like this is a win win situation for everyone, regardless of whether or not you're jumping on board or on.

As I say, my soapbox, you don't have to get on the soapbox, but just even by adding the smallest little thing to a child's different daily plan or a parent's different, we're impacting their life in such a positive way. So that to me is always a win win.

[Kevin]
It's exposure. You're you're never going to be hurt by just exposing someone to something new. Yeah, I'm feeling that I should give brussels sprouts another try.

I'm feeling very guilty. OK, yes, please do. Please do.

[Chef Kim]
I'm all for that. I'll give you all the the ways in which to try. And I think so many ways like we get stuck in the in the mindset of how our parents did it and what our families did to so much of that before.

And if you look at it with a different set of lenses, then like because, again, we've come a long way since our parents were doing certain things. We have the Internet now. That wasn't a thing in many ways.

So if you think on a whole, we've come a long way. So the evolution of our food and how we're eating it and the way we know things like we're not putting table salt on anything anymore. We know that kosher salt or Himalayan salt is a mineral that's needed in many cases for our bodies.

We know that it enhances the flavor of the vegetables versus tasting like table salt. We know so much more about ingredients. But because we know so much more about ingredients, we also have a responsibility to do better by what we do know and how we're putting ourself forward.

So to me, eating well is is the the foundation for self-care. When everybody talks about self-care and, oh, yeah, going for pedicures and all of that stuff. No, go get really great groceries.

That is self-care.

[Kevin]
Internal self-care.

[Chef Kim]
Totally, totally. That, to me, is like the best form you can have.

[Michelle]
Amen, sister. There's a mic drop right there.

[Kevin]
Exactly. Done. There.

Podcast over. Done. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Nutrition for Noobs.

[Michelle]
And that's it. That's it. That's all I got.

[Kevin]
Now. Yeah, exactly.

[Michelle]
No, that's amazing. We're so grateful that that folks like you are out there. And I kind of I love what I'm doing right now, bringing all of these awesome people that I've met in the community through my business, even though I don't have the business anymore and actually giving you a real platform to to tell your story and give people hope and ideas.

Right. So if if if you can transform the diets of families at Ronald McDonald House, then every single person out there that's listening to our podcast can they to do this in their own kitchen?

[Chef Kim]
Totally. It's so interesting. I years ago on the inside of my arm, I have tattooed the words only she who attempts the absurd can achieve the impossible.

And someone pointed out to me, they're like, you're literally in like McDonald's Ronald McDonald House founded by McDonald's rocking the boat and talking about nutrition and wellness. Like that is some pretty obscene. That absurd.

Yeah.

[Kevin]
Yeah.

[Chef Kim]
And getting people on board to have the conversation, whether it be the staff or the families or the people that are being impacted in that. So, yeah, there's a group that is out of B.C. called founded out of B.C. called Nourish Leadership, and they are essentially going after the hospital tray and they're trying to recreate what that comfort is, but also to include different cultural backgrounds, anything that helps support families and allow them to feel in a better space and more comfortable space while in treatment and that. And they have brought me on as they're one of their chef ambassadors for those two of us that are chefs in this group of of people.

And I said they said, like, essentially, we're doing what they want to do on a really big scale of things. We've kind of started to lay the foundation in that. But just being able to kind of turn a different way and give people a different way of looking things and how we're going about it and having those conversations and really kind of bringing like we're bringing the nutrition to the front of the conversation in everything we do.

So it to me, that's easy for people to get on board and get behind it.

[Michelle]
Yeah, that's fantastic. That reminds me of what's happening in New York. In New York, they now passed a state law that if you are an inpatient in hospital and then the you know, your hospital based meal, the first meal that you have to be offered is a whole food plant based meal.

You have the option to choose something else, but it's on the menu and it's the first thing offered as the as the healthiest option to support you through your recovery.

[Kevin]
I saw that. I love that.

[Michelle]
It's absolutely incredible. So we need more change makers like you that actually, you know, gain the respect and the voice and the influence in the organization. I try in my own small way to do to do that in the in the in the projects that I have the opportunity to be involved in.

But it's it needs all of us. It needs a small, silent, well, not so silent, just a stealth sort of army. Totally.

Well, I'm here because of you.

[Chef Kim]
So maybe yours is not necessarily the rocking the boat yourself, but providing the boat to be rocked by for others. So, yeah, being able to have this conversation and just the aha moments that come along with it and the people that like they get it, that they get it. Like the people that work at the hospital don't want to eat the hospital food.

They know they're not going in getting themselves a plate of it like that. That's not the reality. So being able to push those boundaries and supply those things in the ways in which we know to our core are the highest nutritional content for those families and those small humans.

Like I can't knowingly go against that belief when it comes to the kids and the goodness of them. So they will always have a spot in my kitchen. They will always have an opportunity to learn more and explore and have fun and try things.

There's not many opportunities or moments where we say, no, no, you're not allowed kind of thing. They're allowed to get in, get dirty. And I think creating that space where kids feel safe to have fun and explore what food is, is a foundation for their relationship.

So I always tell parents who are like, how do I get my kid more involved in in wanting to cook food and things like that? Give them the opportunity to do it. Don't invite them in and then put boundaries on it.

No, no, that's going to make too much of a mess. No, no, I don't want to do that. No, no.

Yeah, don't touch that knife. Don't give them the opportunity. Let there.

I guarantee there is a kid in the house that likes to grade the cheese. If you let them try the cheese. But perfect.

Try it. You can do things like this. Have fun.

Try the blueberries as you're washing them. Pick the grapes. Make sure they taste good.

Hey, did you guys try the grapes or do they are they really ripe? Are they sweet grapes? Give them an opportunity to feel included in it.

And then you will they will want to be included in it. But don't go in with the with our speedy mentality of way. Things are rushing through things, grabbing this on the way out the door that in itself is creating such a disaster for food and our wellness as we move forward.

We need to create that foundation of what it means to come to the table and do those things together again.

[Michelle]
So, Kim, I want to just ask you, as we kind of wrap up this and you've given us so much to think about and and to actually be really proud of, actually here in the city of London and what you're doing at Ronald McDonald House, if there is one message that you could leave with our listeners, what would it be?

[Chef Kim]
Oh, one message I would be it would be to do better for yourself. Read the ingredients. Learn, take ownership and responsibility for your body.

Again, you have one of them. We have one. That's it.

You have one body. Take care of it, because you don't know what life is going to what curveballs life's going to throw at you. Like you need to be prepared, even from a physical standpoint, a strength standpoint, whatever that looks like.

The the amount of people that I have encountered whose lives have been impacted differently because they are healthy and invested in their well-being versus not is is definitely you can definitely see the differences in their lives. So it would be to, again, put food at the top of that radar to get your kids and people involved in it. Have great conversations about great food.

You don't have to be a chef to try new things, and you don't have to follow rules like food's meant to be fun. Have fun with it. Find the joy and and meditation in the fun of cooking and creating something, knowing that it's going to feed you your body, mind, soul in such a tremendous way.

[Kevin]
Be curious with your food.

[Chef Kim]
Yeah, yeah.

[Michelle]
Play with your food. I'm always saying. So, you know, what I love about you said it reminds me of Chris Wark.

If you know who Chris Wark is, Chris beat cancer. And when he is dealing with coaching of of families dealing with cancer or patients dealing with cancer, he always says that when we if we take the stance that nothing that we did contributed to our disease, that completely takes our power away. Totally.

And it means that there's absolutely nothing that we can do to change it. Yeah. And when we realize that the way that we were eating and the way that we were living contributed to where we are at, that puts us in a tremendous position of power that we can change that trajectory.

[Chef Kim]
I do. I have to say, I do feel more people are starting to recognize that and that I feel I get excited about the thought of people becoming aware of what those added sugars are doing, what those added ingredients kind of getting a little more curious about the things that don't necessarily sit well and really honoring that. And I think that is a very powerful tool to have.

Yeah, absolutely.

[Michelle]
And if people want to connect and if they want to contribute, if people want to contribute or get involved to what you're doing, how would people do that?

[Chef Kim]
So they can follow us at the Ronald McDonald House Southwestern Ontario on all all social platforms. They can also follow me on Instagram. I'm TheChefKim or TheChefKim.

[Michelle]
TheChefKim, of course.

[Chef Kim]
It's a very grandiose title, right? Or you can check out the Ronald McDonald House website and see what it is we're doing, how you can get involved, how you can make a donation. Of course, we always we are a charity base.

So 70, like I said, our McDonald's is a huge supporter. They support 26 percent. We 74 percent we make up on our own because we're not government funded.

So a lot of people don't know that we're all private donors and such. So we have a really incredible team that is working very hard. So being able to to have anyone that, of course, is is looking to get on board and support and donate.

So all of the majority of the food that we we use in order to support this mission is purchased in many cases. So donations to offset that are a huge piece. And then whatever it looks like to to support a family that's staying in the house.

We only charge our families ten dollars to stay in the house because we know where that for many cases, one or both parents that aren't able to work and things like that can be a huge burden on them. So we try and keep it as as reasonable for our families as possible.

[Michelle]
Well, yeah, we need some we need some donors to donate some indoor gardens into that six tower building so that you can grow all your own food.

[Chef Kim]
Yes. Well, I did get we had a RBC wellness grant a couple of months ago, and we with it. I used the money they had donated to buy a freeze dry machine because a freeze dry machine holds 100 percent nutritional content for up to 25 years.

So I can get all of our local produce and vegetables and fruit and everything freeze dry it through the summer and then serve it to the families throughout the winter. So they're not getting a strawberry that's half white that's come up on a truck from or for you to get Kevin's pet peeve. Where's my exactly?

[Kevin]
Don't get me started on strawberries.

[Chef Kim]
So if you can imagine you're eating a all it takes is for me to do it. You can either eat it freeze dried or I can just reconstitute it with a little bit of water and you're eating a local strawberry.

[Kevin]
A fresh Ontario strawberry like like they taste in May or June.

[Michelle]
Yeah.

[Kevin]
All year long. I need a dehydrator.

[Michelle]
Oh yeah. Kevin, you're going to be ordering a freeze dry machine.

[Kevin]
I am.

[Chef Kim]
Yes, exactly. Well, when you put it that way and then you think it also helps to support take the house down to an almost zero percent waste. So we're literally using everything to support our families as much as possible.

[Kevin]
Smart. So smart. And if you can buy food when it's in season, totally.

It's generally cheaper. And that's when it's it's, you know, and less transport and everything else. Rather than trying to find fresh, you know, strawberries in the middle of February.

[Chef Kim]
I get it. I get it.

[Kevin]
You got to look after everything.

[Chef Kim]
Yeah. Yeah. So that kind of we I went down a rabbit hole of freeze drying stuff and how much fun it can be and exciting.

And that is also one of the conversations we've opened up with the kids in the house. And this is very trendy to freeze dry things. So it's a hey, Chef Kim, what can we freeze dry today?

Well, here, guys, what do you want to try? You guys go back and research it. So I have a whole team of kids in the house who will go back and research all kinds of fun things to bring forward.

And and again, that to me is creating that really great, fun conversation and that relationship with food.

[Kevin]
So and it's also it also must be just psychologically good to also give them something positive to think about and take their mind off all the horrible things that they're going through or their siblings are going through or whatever. So it's also a great distraction. But a positive distraction, if you know what I mean.

[Chef Kim]
Totally.

[Michelle]
Yeah.

[Chef Kim]
Personal accountability. Yeah.

[Kevin]
Yeah.

[Chef Kim]
And they get to be part of the conversation and kind of the when we put the menu up on on the board, then they know that, oh, yeah, that's going to have those freeze dried whatever it is that we made. Or that's going to have that. Oh, yeah, we're serving this to the house.

So sometimes when the kids come in and I'll let them bake things like those two girls in the house right now that bake banana bread and then we put it out and serve it for dinner. And then everybody in the house tells them how incredible their banana bread is. And so that just adds that extra bit of joy to the entire experience, because the families want to share that they've had this delicious treat.

But also then the kids that are making it are so proud and they get that little own boost in their confidence as to what they're doing. And, yeah, it's really changes the conversation we're having in many ways. It's incredible.

[Kevin]
Well, Kim, I wanted to thank you for joining us. This has been very eye opening. And and honestly, I can't express how.

Much I think this is like incredible work, and I hope every other Ronald McDonald house throughout the world is going to look at you and make similar changes.

[Chef Kim]
Thank you very much for, again, having these opportunity to to have these conversations and allow us to spread that knowledge from the chef side of me. It's very exciting to see people having really great conversations about really great food.

[Kevin]
Yeah. And certainly, you know, I welcome you back if you know, if things change or if you know, once the once the expansion goes or who knows, if you are flying all over the world doing this, I please share share your successes with us. You're always welcome back.

[Chef Kim]
Thank you.

[Kevin]
Thank you. I say that now because after hearing what I'm about to say, you might not want to come back because we do the history of really bad dad jokes.

[Chef Kim]
Oh, yeah.

[Kevin]
At the end of every episode.

[Chef Kim]
I'm ready.

[Kevin]
I'm ready. You're ready. OK.

Are you ready, though?

[Chef Kim]
I'm totally OK.

[Kevin]
I gave my partner a map of the world and a dart and said we could go anywhere on vacation, wherever the dart landed. So I guess we're spending three weeks behind the fridge.

[Chef Kim]
Ha ha ha. Oh, groaner. I warned you.

[Kevin]
I've got one. Okay.

[Chef Kim]
Okay. It's my favorite, my favorite joke. So this guy goes into a bar and he orders a drink.

Bartender comes over, pours the drink and the bartender goes and leaves us off doing other things. And then the gentleman hears, wow, you look so handsome. And he's kind of looking around realizing he's in the bar totally by himself and doesn't see anyone around.

So then the bartender comes back again, he orders himself another drink and he hears the bartender's gone and he's just sitting there enjoying his beverage by himself. And he hears, oh, you're such a kind person. And he's like, huh, what's going on?

So third time the bartender comes back and he says to him, he's like, yeah. So like when you go away, I hear someone's voice and I'm not sure where it's coming from. And the bartender says, oh, is it, are you hearing really nice things?

And that, and the guy's like, yeah, like it's so strange. And he said, no, no, don't worry. It's the peanuts.

They're complimentary.

[Kevin]
Oh, I have officially met my match.

[Michelle]
That was amazing. You know, I love a great walks into a bar joke. Yeah, exactly.

[Kevin]
I've not heard that one before.

[Chef Kim]
I have not heard one, and that's so good. Well, you can have, you can use that one at your own leisure.

[Kevin]
Well, it's been used now, so it's in the public domain. We've lost control over that. Okay.

Well, that's it for this episode. So again, thank you, Chef Kim, for joining us. And until next time I will say, eat your greens.

[Michelle]
And be real, everyone. Do you have a tagline, Kim?

[Chef Kim]
Food is medicine.

[Kevin]
I love it. This has been Nutrition for Noobs. We hope you're a bit more enlightened about how your fantastic and complicated body works with the food you put into it.

If you have a question or a topic you'd like Michelle to discuss, drop us a line at n4noobs@gmail.com. That's the letter N, the number 4, N-O-O-B-S at gmail.com. If you haven't already, you can subscribe to the podcast on whatever your favourite platform might be.

Also, please consider leaving a review or telling your friends. That's the best way to spread the word. We'll see you next time with another interesting topic.

The views and opinions expressed on Nutrition for Noobs are those of the hosts. It is not intended to be a substitute for medical, nutritional, or health advice. Listeners should seek a personal consultation with a qualified practitioner if they have any concerns or before commencing any actions mentioned in the podcast.