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Michelle: Hey, Kev, do you know what I did the other day? I was staying with a family member and, you know, we don't have cable television. We just have like streaming services. But what came up was the Breakfast Club. Do you remember that movie?

Kevin: Of course I do. I love that. Don't you forget about I won't sing, but I love that film. It's one of my favorites. I've seen that dozens of times, probably.

Michelle: I know it was such a clock.

Kevin: I love it.

Michelle: But but do you know, there's a you know, which one that this made me think of that I haven't seen it. Oh, my gosh. I haven't seen it in decades. And it's weird. I only saw it once, but I loved it. And I don't think I don't think the critics liked it, but I thought it was hilarious. It was crazy. People, did you ever see that movie? It was like deadly more. I don't think it was 80s, though. I think that was like either 89 or 90 early, early 90s.

Kevin: I think I did see because I love Dudley Moore.

Michelle: I know.

Kevin: I love him. He was I loved him when he was with Peter Cook on the BBC. And I loved Arthur. And there's a little stupid. It's so bad. And I haven't seen it recently. But there's something called Unfaithfully Yours in like the mid 80s with I think it was like Nastassia Kinsky. Do you remember her?

Michelle: No, she was. I wonder if I would recognize her if I saw her.

Kevin: She was like a Russian dancer who became an actress. And she was like the it girl for about like 27 seconds.

Michelle: Oh, anyways.

Kevin: So I love Dudley Moore. So, yes, I did see.

Michelle: Well, Daryl Hannah was in this and there's there's a bunch of other people. But like what I was, oh, you know what, I should just come over and I should make you watch it with me. It's about this advertising executive who has a mental breakdown because he can't live with the fact that he's just making up lies.

Kevin: Oh, is that the one is that the one where there's a line like Volvo? It's boxy.

Michelle: Boxy.

Kevin: But it's safe or something. Yes. Oh, OK. I do remember that. Yes. Yes. Yes. Totally.

Michelle: Totally. Totally. Totally. By Volvos. They're boxy, but they're good. We know they're not sexy. This is a smart time to be sexy anyway with so many diseases around. So be safe instead of sexy.

Kevin: Yes. I do remember that. Oh, my God.

Michelle: And then, oh, I was just I was killing myself thinking about that. I don't know how Breakfast Club conjured this up. But then there was do you remember if you then if you saw the movie, there was this other one, the ad that he had done for United Airlines, because OK, for listeners, the premise of the movie was like he he was his co-workers and his boss committed him to this mental institution because he couldn't handle being dishonest. So he started to make like really honest advertisements. And somehow they got released. And then somehow he got like all of his other inmates in the in the psych ward to start helping him. And they I think they started their own ad advertising agency or something. I'd have to watch it again. But United Airlines, your fear of flying may be valid. There are always plenty of plane crashes and people die like crazy. But you should also know that more people arrive at their destination alive on our flights than so many others. So if you have to fly us, most of our passengers get there alive. My absolute favorite that sticks in my memory, my absolute favorite that he did was about Metamucil.

Kevin: Oh, no, I don't remember that.

Michelle: Metamucil, it helps you go to the toilet. If you don't use it, you can get cancer and die.

Kevin: Oh, my God.

Michelle: And I remember in the movie, I don't want to give too much away, but it was so funny that they showed that this advertisement got released and all of these people are like rushing to the drugstore and they run out of Metamucil.

Kevin: I met him. You saw my I'd forgotten about that. I should watch. We should have a viewing party.

Michelle: We should. But this leads me to our topic today, believe it or not.

Kevin: There is the link. Oh, my God.

Michelle: That's because there may be some truth to that ad for sure.

Kevin: So are we going to cause another run on Metamucil? Is that what you're saying?

Michelle: So we're going to talk about fiber, OK, because I get that's really what they're trying to do with Metamucil. So we have to talk. And I know that we have talked. I mean, we've weaved fiber in and out of different conversations that we've had. But I really wanted us to take a moment to really pause and and focus on this, because it ties into microbiome. It ties into so many things. You may or may not be surprised to know that, you know, globally, they say like 90 to 95 percent of the population doesn't get enough fiber. But we actually have the data for Canadians and it's 97 percent or more Canadian seven.

Kevin: Oh, my God.

Michelle: So we do not have the do not get the minimum daily fiber recommendations. So I get seven.

Kevin: That's crazy.

Michelle: Yes.

Kevin: I never would have put it that high.

Michelle: Well, I came across the statistic and it made me think we've really got to do an episode on this because I like and the Health Canada guidelines are really like for the minimum. It's really not that much. If you're actually eating whole food, it's it's twenty eight grams for women and thirty five grams for men. OK, and that's really in the context of, you know, if you were eating whole food plant based, that's really not a shocking amount. But the trouble is we're eating so much packaged and processed food and we're eating so much animal protein, which is completely devoid of fiber that it's shoving. It's shoving the vegetables and the grains and the legumes off of people's plate. Oh, so like just just an example of what it would take, like it would take one cup of raspberries added to one cup of cooked oatmeal with half of a servings of almonds, which would give you 13 and a half grams of fiber. And and then a bean and vegetable salad would provide about another 11 grams of fiber. And like like that would be like most of your fiber requirement for the entire day.

Kevin: Both of those combined just in two meals would be almost everything for a woman and a good two thirds of what a man needs.

Michelle: Yeah, exactly. So let's talk. I'm going to go a little nerdy on this a little bit, because I think a lot of people really misunderstand what fiber is. You know what? One memory that comes up when I was in nutrition school was we talked a lot about probiotic, but prebiotic was sort of glazed over very quickly. Right. And I remember I remember even when we were studying for an exam and I remember saying to one of my colleagues like like what like we've talked about probiotics. I know what I know what those are, but what are prebiotics? And they were like, well, that's that's the rest of your food. And I was like, what do you like? They didn't really get it either, but they weren't wrong. It is kind of the rest of your food, right? Because like your your fiber is all the the flesh. It's the outer flesh. It's the indigestible part of your food that makes up the bulk of your stool. You know, it can be soluble like that, that it absorbs toxins and water in the gut to help carry it out. So. So let's talk about all the components. There's the insoluble fiber, so it adds the majority of the bulk to your stool and it helps food pass more quickly through the stomach and the intestines. So it's like a broom. It's like a broom that it's kind of sweeping on its way out and insoluble means it doesn't absorb water.

Kevin: So it sort of stays correct to be bulky, bulky.

Michelle: So that's why it's the broom, right?

Kevin: The broom doesn't have any water in it, right?

Michelle: As opposed to the soluble fiber, which is like a like it, it's like a sponge. It's like it attracts water and it turns but it turns into a gel like we we described that about chia seeds, right?

Kevin: Yeah, right. Yeah.

Michelle: They're very, very high. They're very good source of fiber and they become like gelatinous, right? And this acts more like the mop. So the broom is the insoluble. The mop is the soluble. So in an example of insoluble fibers like our foods that are, you know, obviously very rich and insoluble would be like apples, kale, celery, wheat, figs, all kinds of foods versus the soluble. The ones that have that are more mop like, right, that are that have a lot of that mop like quality are potatoes, oats, beans, seaweed, mushrooms, raspberries, black like lots of fruits, mushrooms, raspberries, blackberries, pears, strawberries, artichokes and flax and chia seeds. OK. Right. And then so then there's prebiotic fiber. If we kind of break it down a little bit further, prebiotic fiber is a class of fiber that acts to beneficially alter the microbes in our gut. And that's that's the foods that are like very, very prebiotic, meaning that they feed those those pro but they feed those microbes.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: Right. And so, again, examples, leeks, asparagus, artichokes, garlic, onions, wheat, oats, soybeans are very, very good at being that food for our microbes. And then there's resistant starches, which is a type of prebiotic fiber that selectively stimulates healthy bacteria. So foods that are rich in resistant starches is really important in the in the production of short chain fatty acids is one way that you can feed your microbes and resistant starches is another one. Right. So corn, unripened bananas, it was geez, it wasn't that long ago that I realized that it's really more unripened bananas that we should be eating rather than ripened ones, even though the ripened ones are so yummy in your smoothie, plantains, beans, rice, cooked potatoes. OK, so that's the that's the primer. When we look at fiber, like in terms of its benefits, it's beneficial because there's insoluble fiber and there's soluble fiber. It's beneficial because it's prebiotic and which is important. And then it's also has resistant starches, which are also very, very important.

Kevin: OK, so so, Michelle, sorry, before you continue, I'm just curious, is there a recommended sweet spot for the mix between soluble and insoluble?

Michelle: That is a great question, because often if people choose to kind of solve their fiber problem with supplements, they're only getting one type of fiber. And the way whole food works and the way our biology works and the way that we have this symbiotic relationship with our food and with nature is because it's the mix of soluble and insoluble fibers. And that's that's going to be the health. So so let's say, for example.

Kevin: But I guess I want to give you I want to give you like a practical example. So me, every morning for breakfast, like clockwork, I have my overnight oats. So oats, you said, fall into the they have more soluble fiber, soluble. So it's more the sponge. So I'm just wondering, since I have a whole lot of sponge every morning, I'm keeping it I'm keeping it simple for the noobs. I'm going I love that sponge and broom analogy. So since I have a lot of sponge fiber, do I have to worry about making sure that I get adequate broom or is that not going to be an issue? Like do I really need to stress about that? Not that I'm going to stress about it, but do I know you're not going to eat?

Michelle: You're not going to eat only oats all day for in one meal, right? So you're going to get other fibers, hopefully by eating, you know, other salads with kale and celery and other greens. And you might have some greens or are some bread with some wheat bread. You may have apples, figs like, OK, so basically, don't worry, there's enough in the broom category not to worry about if you're getting it, if you're if you're just eating, you know, making sure that you have a sufficient amount of plant food in your diet, then you're going to get a good balance. What what comes what comes into into concern is when somebody is relying on a meat heavy diet or a highly processed food diet where the fiber is basically stripped out of things. Right. And then they're trying to supplement and they may if you're supplementing and you have only the insoluble broom type of fiber, which is very commonly recommended, then it could be too scratchy.

Kevin: Like if that if that's the only way because you don't have any natural. Yeah. That's the only source of fiber you're getting. Yeah, for sure. No, I mean, OK, I see.

Michelle: The other thing that can happen is if you rely too heavily on supplementation, then you can become dependent upon taking that supplement in order for you to have a bowel movement. It's the same thing with laxatives. If people don't drink enough water, they can water goes hand in hand with fiber. Right. Like you need you need to have like a lot of hydration or healthy hydration in order to especially to help the soluble fiber work. Otherwise, that's how you get constipated. Right. But if you if you rely on laxatives to solve that problem, then you're going to develop what's called a lazy bowel, potentially where you can't have a bowel movement without without the without taking that fiber supplement.

Kevin: Well, and if you're taking a laxative, you're treating the symptom, but you're not looking at the underlying cause, which is you need to drink more and you need to have more, you know, whole plant based fiber.

Michelle: And so I don't solving the problem and I don't want to I don't want to go too deep. But like, you know, just to keep it at a really high level, like you, you want your body to be competent in doing these processes naturally. Of course. Like I want to be able to naturally natural peristalsis. We want those those muscles and all of all of those mechanisms in the body to work the way they were designed and not have to rely on a supplement or a prop or something to to to do it anyway. But yes, kind of back to back to where crazy people sort of sparked me for this. This prevalence of fiber insufficiency in our population is one of the biggest risk factors for all of these various chronic diseases and conditions that are plaguing our population. Heart disease, diabetes, diverticular disease. Have you ever heard of diverticulitis? It's incredibly painful disease of the gut. You get these little divots and they get inflamed and it's just horrible for people. And constipation and, yeah, colon cancer. And actually a host of they've linked it to a host of other cancers as well recently, like as recently as twenty, twenty three. So just a couple of years ago, there was what's called an umbrella study. It's a review, really, of a whole bunch of other studies. And it's published was published in Nutrients, which is, you know, a very well-regarded scientific journal. And this umbrella review, an umbrella review is kind of like a type of research that it summarizes evidence from multiple systematic reviews and multiple meta analyses. So a meta analysis already is a is a is a compilation of other studies. So this is much larger than that. They call it a very an umbrella review is a very, very broad. And what it did, what it does is it provides a high level overview of what the entire existing scientific literature says, helping to identify trends and gaps and strengths and et cetera, like across studies. And it's used to inform things like health guidelines anyway. So and anyway, in this case, the umbrella review looked at several meta analyses about fiber intake and cancer risk to draw more generalized conclusions. And what it found was that higher fiber consumption is linked to a reduced risk of several cancers, including colorectal, breast, endometrial, ovarian, prostate and some digestive cancers. Well, while some of the studies in that review had limitations in quality that they acknowledged, the overall evidence supported the idea that eating more fiber rich foods like fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes, people are getting tired of hearing that from me, I know, but that they play a very, very significant role in cancer prevention. And, you know, I thought it was worth mentioning that like ovarian, endometrial, prostate, breast, people might not necessarily draw as ready a conclusion about like a correlation between their fiber intake and those types of cancers, as opposed to like colon cancer, which seems pretty obvious.

Kevin: Right, right.

Michelle: But it's it's it's really about how we're working as that fine tuned machine where like we we have this symbiotic relationship with the food that we eat and the efficiency of the human anatomy and physiology. And where we allow that to break down, then the whole organism is at risk.

Kevin: Everything's connected. And especially since you have mentioned in previous episodes sort of the importance of the gut biome, the microbiome in the gut. And so this is kind of the output of that, so to speak. And keeping that microbiome healthy, it makes sense that then other things that seem unrelated could be impacted.

Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorites in this space is Dr. Will Bolshevitz. He traces back like the origin of some of the microbes on the planet that are that are present in our gut and in our in our colon. Right. And some of them are the earliest organisms known to the planet. Like that have that have been. Yeah. And he points out that that just goes to show what a symbiotic relationship we have always had with planet Earth and with the microbes on the Earth and that we literally evolved together. We are dependent upon them and they are dependent upon us. If we are not eating whole foods and getting enough fiber to proliferate those those good guys in our gut, then they don't thrive. Right. And if we don't have those good guys, we don't thrive.

Kevin: Right. So we need to keep a nice, happy environment for all these little microbes that comes out of that. Keep the microbes happy. People eat lots of fiber.

Michelle: And the other the other really important point about fiber, I mean, people can be like, OK, yeah, I know I needed to poop. Fine. I got it. But it also impacts our the effectiveness of our metabolism, which can impact things like other inflammatory diseases, obesity. It impacts the way that we gain or lose weight, cardiovascular disease, type two diabetes. So it's it's it's that integral to our health.

Kevin: Right. And if I recall, it's also linked to obesity, because often fibrous foods tend to make us feel fuller. And I've heard that overly processed foods, especially like high salt, sugar and fat, if they're missing a lot of fiber, they have tons of calories because of the sugar and fat, but they don't have the bulk of the fiber, in which case you end up like sort of pound for pound, you end up eating more calories, which can then lead to, first off, just having more calories and gaining weight, but also secondly, you feel hungry sooner because you don't have the bulk of that fiber. So again, it's kind of...

Michelle: A hundred percent. You've got that sugar and you got that... So you've signaled to the brain that you're going to get calories and then that's all that's expecting, but there's nothing slowing that down. So that's one of the things that fiber does is it slows down the transit through the gut, that this is because it's taking that time to pull things apart and absorb nutrients. And it's only that indigestible part that is making it all the way down to the large intestine and using that broom sweeping to clear out. And also the other part, the mop part to give it moisture and collect things and help you get it out. So the other aspect of this is satiety. So I mean, if you're eating that microwavable dinner, that was probably very tasty, but it had all these sauces. It may have had a few like very overcooked vegetables in it, but it's probably mostly other processed stuff that's completely devoid of really good...

Kevin: Lots of chemicals and things I can't pronounce in the ingredient list.

Michelle: It'll help you for a minute, but you're going to be very, very hungry much faster. In terms of satiety, people tend to focus on protein and we certainly do when we have enough protein and that can be in the case of a plant-based person, a combination of foods or certainly maybe just enough volume that you're eating enough. But even with the mediators, certainly protein as a nutrient does have much more of an interaction with our hormones like the ghrelin and things that make you signal to your brain that you're full, but they discount the fiber. Fiber is just as important a part of satiety because it's that slowing down of the food moving through that you don't get hungry as quickly and you feel full and you feel satiated, especially when you're drinking enough water as well.

Kevin: Well, because people talk about the glycemic index, I assume that's connected in that I forget if it's a high or low glycemic index, one sort of stays in your body and slows it down and so you're not hungry as quickly and the other just sort of goes through your system like that.

Michelle: Yeah, it's the rate at which we burn those sugars, right?

Kevin: And so how hungry you are, in which case how soon after you'll eat even more.

Michelle: You're going to use it quick.

Kevin: Right, right. And then you'll be hungry more.

Michelle: Yeah.

Kevin: And you'll eat more and we all know where that goes. Yeah.

Michelle: So we did touch on this on our previous episode, but it's worth mentioning again that if you want to, like if you recognize listening to this episode, oh crap, I don't eat enough fiber.

Kevin: Or maybe, oh no crap, I don't even have fiber.

Michelle: You want to start doing that, but you don't go to hog town, like just constantly, like just now loading yourself up on fiber when your body isn't used to that level of intake. So start slow because adding too much fiber too quickly will, remember we talked about the results of the gas that you will get when you've started to incorporate.

Kevin: You don't want that and the people you live with don't want that.

Michelle: Make a batch of chili, but maybe don't eat three bowls of it in your first sitting.

Kevin: You know, work up to it, people work up to it.

Michelle: Yeah. So, so increasing your fiber is, you know, really the most tolerable. If you sort of gradually increase it over, over a few weeks and then build up your tolerance, and then you'll find that much more comfortable and you'll, you'll have the joys of seeing how much better you feel and how much more productive your bathroom visits are.

Kevin: That's one way of putting it.

Michelle: Hey, there is nothing like a good poop. We'll save that for another day. Drinking your fluids as well as you, as you eat more fiber, you've got to drink lots of fluids because some fibers actually only work best when they absorb water, which would be those soluble fibers, right?

Kevin: Right. The sponges.

Michelle: Yes. The sponges need to be well hydrated so that those bowel movements aren't uncomfortable.

Kevin: Because dry sponges are gross. They really are. Have you ever like touched a dry sponge? It's gross. We don't want that inside you.

Michelle: No. That would hurt. No, Kevin.

Kevin: Hey, if you're going to talk about gut health, I'm going to go. I'm sorry, I can't help myself.

Michelle: But I've got another little fascinating thing about fiber that you're going to love, okay? Excellent. Because remember, I think I talked about looking at fossilized humans before or old. So there was this study on fossilized feces from a prehistoric hunter forager population. And from this, they were able to make, like to learn a lot about what they were eating and how much fiber they were consuming. And they found out by studying the fossilized feces that the average daily consumption of fiber amongst those met, they were, I think because they found this forager population, they found they were males, was 135 grams, the average daily consumption. So we're having trouble getting 28 to 35 grams of fiber. They were getting without, you know, they didn't have processed food. Their meat would have been very scarce. They were primarily gatherers, not hunters, as we've gotten before, 135 grams a day. And then even the study says that modern hunter gatherer populations, such as the Hazda in Tanzania, consume today between 80 and 150 grams of fiber per day. And what's the result? They can study this modern tribe now. They can't really talk about the chronic diseases in these ancient populations. But this Tanzanian population that has 80 to 150 grams of fiber have way better cardiovascular health, way better metabolic health than the average Canadian.

Kevin: And amazing poops.

Michelle: Right. They have to have. So like the link between fiber intake and our health outcomes is extremely, extremely clear. So we know that humans likely evolved eating way more dietary fiber than that measly minimum recommended amount that Health Canada recognizes, which, you know, it's very consistent across the planet to other countries have fiber intake recommendations. They might be off by one or two grams based on what they're recommending, but it's pretty much, pretty much similar. What fascinates me is the fact that there's data suggesting that Canadians are below even the national deficiency.

Kevin: Right. Right.

Michelle: Which goes and I don't know what that is. I'm wondering if it's because we have like seasons like winter where we just don't.

Kevin: Where it's tough to find fresh.

Michelle: Yeah. Where people are having to rely on grocery stores and food chains to to get it. So the the other thing the other thing I want to mention and then I want to I want to run down some foods and just, you know, talk about the average fiber content to those foods to give you and the listeners some hope. But what I what I found really fascinating is that, you know, it just reinforces the idea that vegan and whole food plant based are not synonymous because they're a whole chunk of the vegan community that have a heavily high processed junk food diet, just the same as non-vegans. And in the old, old days, vegan did mean healthy because we didn't have those vegan convenience foods. But now that you can you can get a vegan anything. Right.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: So so in this in this article, even vegans are not necessarily getting enough fiber. So one of one of the things that vegans one of the big studies that's very commonly referenced on anything to do with the links between diet and disease is the epic Oxford study. And it showed that vegans were consuming twenty five point nine grams of fiber per day compared to twenty one point six for vegetarians and only eighteen point eight grams on average for those that identify as meat eaters. So, I mean, they were still doing better. Yeah, they were better than the meat eaters, but they still still are not necessarily getting enough. Twenty five point nine is still shy of the minimum recommended twenty eight or thirty grams, which is the minimum recommended. It's not optimal.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: Right. So there's just such a proliferation of vegan processed and junk foods that it's easier than it ever was in the you know, the seventies or whatever.

Kevin: Anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michelle: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So you used to if you used to want to eat that way, you had no choice. You had to make real food, but you no longer the case anyway. OK, so fiber is the goal. We want to consume fiber. And, you know, one one simple things that folks can do is you can download a chronometer app because it's it's free. You can download that and and you can actually track your fiber intake and see how you're doing. And you might be surprised. And, you know, I also am a proponent of you don't need to religiously track your dietary intake on apps like that. But if you're if you're wanting to get an idea of where where you're starting from and what what impact your changes make, you know, do it for three or four days and you'll quickly understand the impact and what the trend is. I've done that a few times just out of curiosity. So let's talk about some common fruits.

Kevin: Let's let's talk about some common fruits.

Michelle: Raspberries, one cup, eight grams of total fiber.

Kevin: Well, that's I love raspberries. That'll be easy for me.

Michelle: No, I could eat a cup in like soon going to be raspberry season.

Kevin: I know. I know. Strawberries have just started.

Michelle: We're strawberries on the list because I've strawberries three, only three grams of fiber because I have it.

Kevin: Well, I've probably had like 30 grams worth of fiber from strawberries in the last week. I bought a ton.

Michelle: Yeah, all the strawberries are so good. An orange, also three, a banana, also three. But the higher fiber of these fruits would be the apple. As long as you don't peel the skin off. Four point five grams of fiber, a pair, five point five grams of fiber. This chart that I'm looking at doesn't tell me about peaches. And I love peaches, probably pears. I would assume common vegetables, green peas, even if you boil them one cup, nine grams of fiber.

Kevin: Oh, wow.

Michelle: Broccoli. If it's cooked, one cup chopped, five grams of fiber. Brussels sprouts. We eat a lot of Brussels sprouts. Four point five grams. Potato. Potato is one of the easiest ones. And it's been vilified. Everybody picks on the poor potato. It's not the potato's fault. It's all the crap that you put on it. Just don't put all that other crap on your potato. The potato itself is fine. It's nutrient dense. It's got four grams of fiber. Eat it.

Kevin: Do it.

Michelle: Do it. So oddly, cauliflower, they mentioned the raw cauliflower. I'm surprisingly low in fiber, though. Two grams, total grams of fiber for one cup of chopped cauliflower. But you know what? That's still, I mean, one cup of chopped cauliflower really isn't that much, right?

Kevin: But that just justifies me not eating it because cauliflower is just so boring. I don't like it.

Michelle: Well, there's more in the broccoli, way more in the broccoli. Broccoli's got more than twice the amount. But cauliflower is so great. You can make all kinds of great things out of cauliflower. Anyway, so let's talk about the grains. So spaghetti, but we're going to focus on the high fiber versions of spaghetti, not the not the processed, highly processed stripped of fiber. So whole wheat cooked spaghetti, one cup, which is not very much, six total grams of fiber. OK, bran flakes, the three quarter cup is five and a half grams of fiber. I guess they're saying you don't want more than three quarter cups of bread.

Kevin: Talk about boring.

Michelle: One cup of cooked quinoa, five grams of fiber. Your oatmeal. Now, this is interesting because the chart puts in only like instant oatmeal. I think because I think they're assuming what people will most commonly eat.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: Even an instant cooked oatmeal, one cup has four grams of fiber. But if you did have steel cut, you're getting seven.

Kevin: Oh, I do steel cut. Yeah.

Michelle: Yeah.

Kevin: Steel cut for the win, baby. I guess the I guess as you cut it up, you lose some some like powder and such as from the cutting.

Michelle: It becomes more processed, so it loses. It loses fiber. Yeah.

Kevin: OK.

Michelle: Even three cups of air popped popcorn, which is often my go to three point five grams of fiber. Oh, well, brown rice, three point five whole wheat bread to rye bread to legumes. This is where you're going to bet the best bang for your buck, baby.

Kevin: Hit me.

Michelle: OK. Lentils, 15 and a half grams of fiber per cup.

Kevin: Oh, wow.

Michelle: Black beans, 15 grams per cup. Cannellini or navy beans or great northern beans. They're quite interchangeable. 13 grams of fiber per cup. Chia seeds, one ounce, 10 total grams of fiber.

Kevin: All right. I'm glad I had some for lunch today.

Michelle: Yeah. And almonds, three and a half grams fiber per ounce. Pistachios, three grams per ounce. Sunflowers, kernels, three grams. So, I mean, I only go through that list to give you an idea of actually how easy it is to just eat real food.

Kevin: Exactly. Again, I'll just say I could easily eat my thirty five grams just from raspberries. Like you had those at the top and like I could so easily do that.

Michelle: Yeah. If you're eating unhealthy foods and you're eating in the restaurant drive throughs and things that come in packages, it's going to be really, really difficult to make your fiber requirements. But if you're eating...

Kevin: But on the flip side, like it strikes me even if you have one of your three meals a day is so-so, you know, is prepackaged or, you know, microwave, you know, lasagna. Again, going back to, you know, living in the real world, it strikes me that in the other two meals of the day, plus maybe any snacks you have, if you're aware, it doesn't seem insurmountable that you could still get the thirty five grams or close to it from legumes and having, you know, a lot.

Michelle: And it's a great place to start, too. Right. And that's why I suggest the chronometer. I think most of us, like until we actually start to sit down and think about it and become aware of these things, we just don't know.

Kevin: Of course. Yeah.

Michelle: I mean, I remember a time when I thought like a Big Mac had all the major food groups in it. Two LB patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.

Kevin: I thought, exactly, you've got it all. What's missing? Come on. Isn't that whole food?

Michelle: Oh, no. Whole, whole lot of something.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly.

Michelle: Did I ever tell you that we put it when I was in school, we put a McDonald's hamburger and McDonald's french fries in like in a like a cloche and just let like to see what would happen. And they didn't decompose.

Kevin: Oh, lovely. That's like the stories of the Twinkies that last for like, you know, 50 years and they still haven't gone rotten.

Michelle: You had to have had this experience. Anyone that's had a little kid and in a car seat in the back of the car and driven through and given them french fries, and then you find a french fry underneath the car seat like three years later, and it looks as new as the day that it came out.

Kevin: Exactly. And you haven't been to McDonald's for three years and you realize, wow, that is old and it hasn't changed. Yes.

Michelle: Yeah. So just as an example, like have your oatmeal with steel cut oats, some blueberries, maybe throw some cranberries on there, maybe maybe some apple, maybe some bananas, some ground flax seed if you want a little bonus in there. And then you'll you'll start your day off with, you know, close to 20 grams of fiber. So that is that. That is what I had to share today.

Kevin: And to think all of that came out of discussion around the breakfast club.

Michelle: I know right here from 80s movies, 80s movies, which links to food, which led me to crazy people, which led me to Metamucil, which led me to fiber.

Kevin: No, there is a connection there. There is a through line there. It's it's rather tenuous, but I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you. Okay, well, are you ready for some dad jokes?

Michelle: I am.

Kevin: Okay. I deliberately tried to find some fiber puns since we're talking about fiber.

Michelle: Did you? I can hardly wait.

Kevin: You don't get your hopes up. Okay. Fiber is like a good friend. It always helps out when you're stuck.

Michelle: That was funny.

Kevin: Was it?

Michelle: I don't know. Yeah.

Kevin: Okay. I got one more for you.

Michelle: Okay.

Kevin: I wanted to increase my fiber in my diet by eating beans, but my plan is dramatically backfiring.

Michelle: True story, bro.

Kevin: We've all been there. We have all been there.

Michelle: Well, remember what I said before, you should be delighted when that happens. You can just say, yes, I am growing my microbes. I'm getting those short chain fatty acids. I'm growing my butyrate in my gut, which is going to be so good for my immune system and my organs and my youth and my metabolism.

Kevin: Michelle, I will keep that in mind the next time I crack a big one in front of my mother-in-law.

Michelle: Oh, no.

Kevin: I'll be saying, oh, well, you know, I just feel great. That was good for me.

Michelle: End of episode. Time to cut this off right now.

Kevin: Exactly. It's too late. It's too late. Okay. Well, thank you, Michelle, for this incredible information all about fiber.

Michelle: Thank you. Thanks for listening.

Kevin: And there is fiber in greens, right? Lots of fiber.

Michelle: Yes, of course.

Kevin: Okay. So I'm still safe.

Michelle: Just eat real food, but be conscious about your fiber and be conscious about your water.

Kevin: Well, I just wanted to make sure that I'm still safe in saying, eat your greens.

Michelle: And be real.

Kevin: We'll see you next time with another interesting topic. The views and opinions expressed on nutrition for noobs are those of the hosts. It is not intended to be a substitute for medical, nutritional or health advice. Listeners should seek a personal consultation with a qualified practitioner if they have any concerns or before commencing any actions mentioned in the podcast.