Loading...

Transcript

Kevin: Poop. Poop. Poop. Poop.

Michelle: What are you doing?

Kevin: Well, Michelle, given the topic we're going to talk about today, I'm going to try to be mature. So I'm trying to get all the poops out of my system right now.

Michelle: That's mature.

Kevin: See what I did there? Get the poops out of my system.

Michelle: No, my gosh.

Kevin: Hey, you chose this topic. You chose this topic.

Michelle: Well, it's an important topic, Kevin.

Kevin: It is. Especially since last episode, we talked about fiber.

Michelle: I know, one just rolled into another one, right?

Kevin: That's a good one. So what are we talking about today, Michelle?

Michelle: We are talking about poop. And I want to, I mean, I know it's often very taboo, but I guess I, I guess I read and listen to and go to conferences with a lot of gastroenterologists that become, I'm kind of a poo evangelist, evangelist, evangelist, well, the thing, and you've heard me say this before. It's the best indication on the outside that you can get of things that might be going on in the inside, which makes sense, right? So, and then it can be a clue to, you know, is what's happening to me normal? Is my body optimal? Like, it's going to be an indication of everything. It's going to be an indication of your immune health and your gut health as well. So we shouldn't be afraid, Kevin, to look at our poop and be able to explain what our poop looks like to a healthcare professional.

Kevin: I will be brave and I will look at my poops. Just to say, just as a general introduction, I will say that I have noticed that on a high level, poop is an indication of your gut health because I've noticed that anytime I've been on a round of antibiotics, my poo looks odd. Like the color, the texture, everything looks off for like a couple of weeks and you know, there's that clear cause and effect of, oh, the antibiotics are obviously killing off some of the good little dudes in my system to fight the bad dudes. And therefore, like my poop has changed visibly, like quite noticeably again in texture and color and all that.

Michelle: Yeah. I recently had an infection, so I had no choice, had to go on antibiotics as well. And then with the, you know, with the unfortunate state of our environment and the overuse of things, I had an antibiotic resistant strain. So I was on antibiotics like three or four different rounds. So which was, as you can imagine, that really devastated me. I mean, I mean, nobody, nobody wants an infection. So like that's where we're happy. We have modern medicine. I wouldn't want to live in a world that didn't have antibiotics, but you know, I worked so hard on my microbiome and it was just, I have to start all over again.

Kevin: One month. Yeah. Yeah.

Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting that the best, the best data about that so far, according to Dr. Will Bolshevitz, who's a, you know, he's kind of the poop guy guy. Yeah. He's I'm sure he's happy to have the same guy that wrote Fiber Fuel. So with the antibiotics, it can take up to well, everyone's different. So it depends on so many things. But like if we were to be generous, it can take two months or longer. Oh, wow. You have to not only repopulate the species, but and try to feed those good guys. But you're not necessarily having a healthy gut if you've got diversity, but you don't actually have population. So if you have like, I'm just going to make up a ridiculous number, like, like 400,000 of one kind and like 100 of another kind, like we need to have healthy populations as well as the number of species. So but that directly, directly impacts your poo, like right away as to what it looks like, its consistency, how you feel and all of that. The evacuation experience, the evacuation experience, that's an interesting way to put it.

Kevin: It's a plane evacuating the plane.

Michelle: How was your evacuation experience? We're super classy here at the Nutrition for Natives.

Kevin: Yes, the evacuation experience.

Michelle: So let's talk about that.

Kevin: Let's talk about it.

Michelle: What should the ideal poop be like? Do you do you have any guesses or do you want me to just get right into it?

Kevin: My guess would be it needs to have shape and consistency without being too solid and bulky. I don't know why I'm doing these hand signals.

Michelle: You're correct. I don't know, but it's fascinating to watch you.

Kevin: And then color. I don't know. I'm not.

Michelle: Yeah. All of these things are in play. You're absolutely right. So so you you should. This is something I've heard Dr. B say, and it made me laugh out loud. He said your evacuation should be complete. You should no longer feel like you have to go when you're done. He said it should be satisfying or even fun.

Kevin: Have fun while you poop.

Michelle: What he means is it should it should feel good. Right. And I've always I've always said that there's nothing nothing feels as good as a good poop. Right.

Kevin: It does feel good. I have to admit it's a nice it's a good feeling, no, because you feel sort of empty, but in a good way afterwards. And it's kind of it's kind of satisfying.

Michelle: And if it doesn't feel good, if it's painful, if it takes a long time, if you have to if you have to put in effort, if it's straining, that's that's not a good sign. So there should be no pain, no effort required. It should you should feel you should feel urge, but not urgency, meaning that you could hold it for a bit if you had to.

Kevin: But then you should just it should just be effortless and effortless evacuation experiences.

Michelle: The triple you're going to be talking about this now for a while.

Kevin: I am. I can't let that go. I've never heard that before.

Michelle: And I love it. It should be well formed. So the shape of a nice sausage and in and in terms of, like you said, not too hard, not too soft. So it should be it should be soft, but not hard, but soft, but not liquidy. Right.

Kevin: Like keeping its shape is how I view it. Like it's soft, but it still maintains its shape.

Michelle: Yeah. And I've heard Dr. Chuck can say that it should just do a nice sploosh.

Kevin: And not a plop. Sploosh. Yes.

Michelle: Sploosh, not a plop. Yeah.

Kevin: Yes.

Michelle: Isn't this weird?

Kevin: All this all this language, this again, things that I have I can say I've never thought about ever consciously.

Michelle: Well, it kind of makes sense that you become conscious of what a healthy evacuation is like, then you won't then you'll know when and you look and you're turning around and looking, then you're going to know immediately when it's different. You're going to know when it is. Right. And because sometimes changes can be subtle and it can help you, you know, kind of ask yourself, oh, geez, have I been drinking enough water? Oh, geez. Have I have I been getting enough fiber in my diet? Those types of things, like just at a very high level. So oh, and the last thing was that cleaning afterwards should not be a challenge.

Kevin: Yes.

Michelle: Right. OK. So the average North American poops once per day. And then there are a number of people that only poop like every other day. And but, you know, Dr. B would say with adequate diet and adequate fiber intake daily, then really a truly healthy person who's getting proper fiber intake and nutrients and water would generally go more than once per day, like as many as two to three times a day. OK. But he cautions, though, that to again, to focus on the experience of pooping more than the frequency. So if you're on every other day pooper and it's complete and it's effortless and it's satisfying and there's no symptoms as a result of the bowel movements, then maybe in some cases, maybe that's normal for you. What's what's normal for other people is normal for them. What is not normal? And I always am aghast when I come across a person who asks me, I haven't pooped in a week. Is that OK? And I'm like, no, that sounds no, no, no, that is not OK. And if you if you can't fix that problem with immediately drinking a bunch of water, because that's one of the most common reasons that I found, then this is a case where you go and you get an enema kit and and you because because then you're like you're reintroducing all the toxin that your body was trying to get rid of. You're reintroducing it because it's your body every minute of every day. And it's putrefying in your gut. And it's and that can cause a whole lot of problems that we should just be trying to avoid.

Kevin: That is not a pleasant evacuation experience.

Michelle: And I would also I should I should say more so than the running for the enema kit, although that's definitely what I would do is book an appointment with your primary care practitioner and try to find out what's wrong, because that is that is clearly a case of constipation that, you know, may require some medical intervention or some other, you know, investigation.

Kevin: Yeah.

Michelle: But the point is well taken. Right. The the experience of pooping is important because some people do poop every other day, every other day. And that's normal. And they're not clinically constipated. Right. So. OK, so now some other important things that are kind of gross to talk about will be as tactful as possible. But color, color, the normal color of a normal, healthy poop is. What color do you think brown and it's not too pale and it's not too dark, it's brown, poop brown, it's brown, brown, actually. Actually, the reason our poop is brown is because because of the bile. So, yeah, bile's the reason. And it's bile's like a secreted digestive juice that our our liver produces it, our gallbladder stores it. But it's secreted through the digestive process in order to absorb fat. OK. And it also assists with the metabolism of fat, soluble vitamins and fat, soluble nutrients. So like that's really, really important.

Kevin: So bile is not the digestive, is not the stomach acid.

Michelle: No, that's different. That's hydrochloric. No, no. Hydrochloric acid is is secreted into the into the stomach. And then the bile is further down in the intestinal tract. But in it's it's secreted through the process of digestion. But further up. Yeah. So not not as high, like below the stomach.

Kevin: Right. OK.

Michelle: So it passes through the biliary tract into the small intestine right after the stomach. OK. And then the bile mixes with food to do its job. OK. So the broken down food. So some of it's reabsorbed, but the rest of it is excreted, which turns your poop brown.

Kevin: OK.

Michelle: OK.

Kevin: Yeah.

Michelle: Interesting. Yeah. OK. Now let's talk about the dangerous colors or the colors that you would go. Something's not quite right here.

Kevin: Let's see how many I get. Is it like poo color bingo? And we'll see how many colors I've experienced in my life.

Michelle: That could be fun.

Kevin: Because I can think of a few, actually. No, I can think of a few. So so I want to go through them and I'm curious to see who color bingo. Bring it on. Color bingo. OK. Under the. Oh, think about that one for a second.

Michelle: Wait a minute. Orange.

Kevin: OK, so poo color bingo. Here we go.

Michelle: OK. Color color one that concerns you, Kevin.

Kevin: Oh, that concerns me.

Michelle: Yeah. Well, one color would concern you. OK, so I have you said this is colors that you've had.

Kevin: OK, so I have had TMI. Yeah, exactly. We're learning a lot about each other today. We've been friends for years, but I don't think we've ever talked about that.

Michelle: Honestly, I don't think this has ever come up in conversation.

Kevin: I don't think so. So we'll see. OK, so there was there have been one or two times not regularly where I have like very pale brown, like almost like a beige tan color.

Michelle: Yeah. So you don't want it to be too light brown if it's too pale, like a sandy kind of color. That could indicate an issue with the bile duct. So like you're not getting that that nice, you know, sort of rich brown that from the bile. There's not as much bile in your poo. So that could indicate there's an issue with the bile duct or like an issue with kidney stones blocking or something like that. So I don't know if you've ever had kidney stones, Kevin, but it's possible people do get them. And but if it could be something like that.

Kevin: Right. I seem to recall I've again, this has only been once or twice. And I think I would I had been sick or something. Well, like maybe with a flu and it was the.

Michelle: Yeah, yeah.

Kevin: And everything's out of whack for a long period of time. It's been, oh, of course, two or three days or whatever. And then it comes back to normal. So nothing.

Michelle: Yeah, for sure. And like yellowish, if you if you would say more pale, if it was more yellowish, it could be it indicate, you know, how your body is is handling fats like it could actually indicate be a warning sign of malabsorption, which would also indicate to me that your fat soluble nutrients would not be absorbing. But the guidance around yellow stool is when you should be really concerned if it's if it's particularly smelly and greasy. Yeah. So that that's yeah. But you know what, though? It could be yellow food dye. Oh, yeah, because the chocolate cake with yellow icing on it or something like the yellows and the reds of food dyes are there's a lot like they're very, very concerning, like I know.

Kevin: I've certainly heard red is horrible.

Michelle: Like red dye.

Kevin: Number one, you either has banned it or is trying to ban a certain red food dye. Because, yeah, I can't remember.

Michelle: Is it red number five? I used to know those numbers. They used to roll off my tongue. But, you know, I most people nowadays know that the food dyes are horrible and and they are avoiding them. And then so then speaking of red, there's oh, sorry, you're supposed to get to ask.

Kevin: Yeah. So so I've never had yellow. So I've had dark, dark brown as well.

Michelle: Yeah, really, really dark brown. It's probably more of is there a consistency that goes along with that? Like, were you particularly dehydrated?

Kevin: It does. I think it does generally associated with dehydration. It because this is going to be a weird texture to say, but it struck me as flaky. If that makes any sense at all, like kind of in in like imagine layers like like like the scales of a fish.

Michelle: Oh, wow. You know, I don't know. I don't know about that particular. I know then. Obviously, there's an issue there because it's not.

Kevin: I was dehydrated. That's well for too many fish for dinner. Too much fish for dinner. I don't.

Michelle: I don't. Chemical mercury poo. I don't know. Yes, yes. But I mean, if it's if it's darkish because like there are like there is a bit of blurring between like red where, you know, it could be an indication of blood in the stool. Right. And and like if there's blood coming from the stomach, like from higher up the digestive tracts, then then you really your stool becomes really dark, like more towards black. And that and that's that's a danger sign. That's a that's a see your doctor and let them know what's going on with your stool, because if you have like a G.I. bleed or something like that, that's right. That's nothing to mess around with. If it's if it's bright red, though, like like it's like you can clearly see that it's bright red, like fire hydrant red. Then that's more likely to do with something near the bottom of the colon. So it's likely like a like a rectal fissure, like rectal bleed or or hemorrhoids inside or something like that. But the darker or especially trending towards purple, because when the like if it's from blood somewhere else further up, then it's traveling through and kind of processing. So it's it loses that brightness, but it and it becomes darker and more purple from that processing in the colon. So by the time you know you evacuate it, it's got this darker, even purpley sort of color. And so that, you know, that, again, might warrant should warrant some medical attention.

Kevin: So the more we talk, the more I do not want to win poo color bingo.

Michelle: No, you don't want to win. You already won. You said brown.

Kevin: Oh, did I? OK, well, that was the that's the main that's the center. That's the center tile of the bingo card. You know, everyone's got that. So I think the only other color that I can think of, I'm trying to think of all the poos of my life has been green. And it strikes me that that was a very sort of loose, like not holding its shape very much.

Michelle: Super, super green again, not for a long period of time, but just green is just usually from eating a lot of greens and kale.

Kevin: OK, that's yeah.

Michelle: I mean, I guess there can be there can be other indications potentially, but that's a very common thing. I know, you know, when I'm going wild on my smoothies and just packing the greens in there, you know, that's very, very common. Same with beets. Right. So like you get purplish. I should have said that if you've got purplish stool, like you very simply just may have eaten beets, had a lot of borscht at Christmastime or something like that. Oh, I've had your borscht or maybe it was your partner's borscht.

Kevin: But yes, no, he's the one who makes it. He's the he's got the Ukrainian descent and it is delicious.

Michelle: It is delicious. We I remember being at your place and enjoying a great big bowl of borscht.

Kevin: Oh, yeah. All fresh made. So I think those are all the colors I can think of. So I'm sure you have other colors.

Michelle: No, no, I think we're I think we're done. Those are the major colors.

Kevin: So it sounds like, you know, on a day to day basis, you might have some variation and you might have some weird.

Michelle: Yeah, and it might depend on what you eat.

Kevin: But if if it's just a random day or two, a different color shouldn't really freak you out. It's only if it continues for a long time. More than a few days.

Michelle: Well, I would say I would say if it looks like you've got blood in your stool or. Right. Basically, don't be afraid to check with your primary care practitioner if it's off and like this is this is the value of paying attention. And and, you know, some people, especially if they're recovering from something and they're really trying to get their bowel movements back to normal, they actually track it. And I'm not opposed to that. I'm not opposed to somebody tracking it, because I mean, this is not something you want to be too embarrassed to talk about or and you don't want to ignore. Like, don't be embarrassed to talk about it with your partner. Don't be embarrassed to have your partner look for you and give you a second opinion because your health may depend on it. And, you know, when my kids when my kids were growing up and they were living at home and they were, you know, complaining that they didn't feel good and they were really sick. That's the first thing I would ask them. What's your poop look like? Like, let me see, you know, like because you can you can tell a lot from from from looking at, you know, the evacuation result.

Kevin: The results of the evacuation.

Michelle: There's the evacuation experience and then there's the evacuation result, the effortless evacuation.

Kevin: Yes.

Michelle: Not not straining. Yes, exactly. And and maybe it's also worth mentioning. People often ask, like, so if I if I eat beets or or whatever, you know, what is the transit time? And it depends on a lot to some extent on whether you're eating a plant like a like mainly plants or if you're eating like a meat heavy diet, I would suggest your transit time is going to be a lot longer if you've if you've eaten a lot of meat because it is the slowest to digest, which is the problem with eating too much of a rate. It spends too much time hanging out, making its way through the large intestine and then it starts to putrefy and and create a lot of unbeneficial bacteria and stuff like that. That's not good. But let's under normal course, let's just say, you know, a person has, you know, a well-planned diet that may include some animal proteins. Transit time would generally speaking should be between 24 and 36 hours. And sometimes for certain things, it can be as soon as like 12 hours ago. I ate something and I'm starting to see a little bit of something. Right. It just depends, because if you're fully whole food plant based, then your transit time is going to be faster.

Kevin: Right. OK, so I've got a really hard hitting question for you now that the world wants to know.

Michelle: All right.

Kevin: What is the deal with corn?

Michelle: Oh, well, it's because it's got so much undigestible cellulose, so it doesn't it just passes. That's fiber. That's fiber.

Kevin: That's fiber because that's fiber. I never like eating corn because, you know, you just chew your food because I'm used to, you know, I you know, when I do look back and see the results of my evacuation, I'm used to it being pretty generic. But when I can see identifiable bits of food in there, it kind of freaks me out.

Michelle: Well, you know what? So I guess there's two sides to that, right? Like it could just simply be like you've got really healthy digestion. You've got healthy diversity. And, you know, you've just you're just seeing the results of maybe not chewing your food too thoroughly. So that's why you're seeing it look exactly like the way that it went in.

Kevin: But it's only with corn.

Michelle: There could it could be if you if you are seeing regularly seeing food in your stool, then that would indicate that there is something wrong, something where your body is not breaking that food down. So it could be like this would be something to consult like your doctor or a gastroenterologist, because I'm not a doctor. But just based on what I know and understand about digestion, good digestion is that that would tell me like maybe you don't have enough hydrochloric acid in your stomach. Maybe you don't have enough bile. Maybe like I don't know the full implications of having your gallbladder removed. I've often been counseling clients who have had their gallbladder removed and and they're struggling with their weight, for example. Well, you're going to be at a disadvantage if you don't have the gallbladder still to store the bile. Your liver produces the bile, but your gallbladder stores it. So it's your gallbladder that knows when and how much bile to secrete. So if you no longer have a gallbladder, then it's just your your liver is going to produce the bile and it's just going to be like floating around in their regulatory system. And so it's going to be diluted. So often people who are have had gallbladder surgery and had it removed often have to supplement with extra. It's ox bile is what it's called. It sounds gross, but that's actually what it is. It's bile from an ox. And because they because they don't have enough bile. So without enough bile in the right quantity at the right times, you're not going to digest fats very well and you're not going to digest. You're not going to metabolize your fat soluble vitamins. So so if you have gallbladder removed and you aren't taking bile with your meals, I would recommend that that might actually really improve your digestion. It might improve your absorption of nutrients and it might help you with your with your evacuation experience.

Kevin: I have never heard of that before. Ox bile being used. That's fascinating. So what else about poo do we need to talk about?

Michelle: No, that's it. I think we've I think we've I think we pretty much covered it. I mean, so like pay attention.

Kevin: We got it all out, did we?

Michelle: Yeah. And if you think that something's not right, don't be afraid to get checked. Don't be don't be shy to get your colonoscopies, especially after a certain age, because you would rather know than not know. Right.

Kevin: So we got it all out.

Michelle: We got it all out. How how was your experience?

Kevin: It was an effortless evacuation experience. Absolutely effortless.

Michelle: I'm sure some of our listeners are going, oh, my God, she's off her rocker right now.

Kevin: No, they're saying he's off his rocker right now. But, you know, I guarantee you, I guarantee you tomorrow morning I am going to be cackling in the bathroom because I'm because I'm going to be thinking about the three E's, the triple E experience.

Michelle: I know, but this is not this is not what I want to be remembered for. I don't want that to be why the reason why you think of me.

Kevin: No, that's just my own weird, like the things that I remember that, you know, I'll be thinking of the three E's.

Michelle: Yeah. Well, there you go.

Kevin: OK, so we've we've I've I've tried to hold myself back this episode, but now I need to let go. Get it. Oh, and have some dad jokes. Oh, that was not one of them.

Michelle: You actually found dad jokes about poo?

Kevin: I had to edit out so many because they were so tasteless. Oh, you have no idea how many.

Michelle: Sorry, I'm going to I'm going to digress for a second. But I love the poo emoji.

Kevin: But with the face or without the face? Because there's two.

Michelle: Oh, no, with the face.

Kevin: Oh, with the face. OK.

Michelle: Although although I have come across the odd person that thinks it's a Hershey's kiss.

Kevin: Well, I've actually I heard a podcast episode about the evolution of the poo emoji. And originally it started just as the little pile of poo with one or two flies around it. And it wasn't until it had been around for several years before they finally put faces like a little face on it.

Michelle: Oh, really?

Kevin: Isn't that interesting?

Michelle: You need to make friends with your poo.

Kevin: And if you go to Asia, it's most Asian technology won't have the little eyes and the little face.

Michelle: Oh, they won't.

Kevin: It's only in North America. Mostly we're the only weirdos. We want to personify and anthropomorphize our poos. OK, I'm sorry.

Michelle: Back to your joke.

Kevin: OK, so are you ready for a poop joke?

Michelle: I'm ready.

Kevin: No, they stink.

Michelle: Oh, of course they do.

Kevin: You know, poop jokes, they aren't my favorite jokes, but they are a solid number two. OK, and this is my favorite. Yeah, I ate four cans of alphabet soup yesterday. Then I put it in my mouth. I probably had the biggest vowel movement ever.

Michelle: OK, that's a good one.

Kevin: That's a good one. I knew you'd like that one.

Michelle: That's a good one. A vowel movement. Ar, ar, ar.

Kevin: Rarr, rarr.

Michelle: I like that one.

Kevin: Well, Michelle, thank you for making us not be afraid to take a little peek over our shoulders once we're done on the toilet.

Michelle: Yeah, yeah.

Kevin: We'll see you next time with another interesting topic. The views and opinions expressed on nutrition for noobs are those of the hosts. It is not intended to be a substitute for medical, nutritional or health advice. Listeners should seek a personal consultation with a qualified practitioner if they have any concerns or before commencing any actions mentioned in the podcast.