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Transcript

Kevin: Hey, Michelle. How's it going?

Michelle: Great, Kevin. I'm super excited to do part two. I haven't stopped thinking about it since we last talked on the last episode.

Kevin: Because you love your research and you love this topic. So that's good.

Michelle: I love nutrition!

Kevin: In case people didn't know. Yeah, I think most people probably got that idea.

Michelle: I'm a little bit of a freak.

Kevin: Yeah, you're not the most subtle about it, but that's okay. That's why we love you. So as a brief reminder, in case people haven't heard our last episode, I do recommend that you put this on pause and go back and listen to it. Michelle covered off some of the latest science and findings around when we should eat and what a good habit is. And to distill it down to a cold's notes, you should eat generally in an 11 to 12 hour window and then fast for 12 to 13 hours. And that generally works for the majority of the population.

Michelle: And don't eat three hours before bedtime.

Kevin: And don't eat three hours before bedtime. There's so much more information, so many more dad jokes involved. So you should go back and listen to the episode. But that's just a reminder in case you've forgotten.

Michelle: And the other thing that's crazy about that, Kevin, is I really only scratched the surface.

Kevin: Oh, I'm sure. I have no doubt that there were many, many rabbit holes that you could have gone down that you didn't.

Michelle: But for noobs, it's the perfect guidance if you ask me.

Kevin: Yes, exactly. We like to keep it at the noob level where we make fun of words like autophagy. Oh, excuse me. Pardon me. Call back.

Michelle: We're just here to help the average person who's confused about nutrition to do better and feel like there's some credibility to what they're hearing, you know. Don't get your nutrition advice off of TikTok.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. Because there's so much out there. Unless they're a legitimate person on TikTok.

Michelle: Right. And in which case, maybe I can help guide you to who you should be listening to on TikTok.

Kevin: Exactly. So if I recall today, you wanted to talk about chronobiology? Chronobiology. Exactly.

Michelle: Chronobiology is it's something so fascinating. So it's this we talk a lot about what to eat, but the importance of when to eat that it isn't necessarily just about a window of fasting, but time of day when you were talking about in the last episode, you know, should I should I eat more at breakfast? Or is it OK to skip breakfast? Well, it turns out, Kevin, that you can eat the exact same meal, the exact food, the exact number of calories in the exact same amounts. And if you eat it earlier in the day, you will gain less weight than if you ate the exact same meal later in the day.

Kevin: OK, and why?

Michelle: Yeah. So it's this notion of chronobiology. And, you know, just to kind of tie it back to the previous episode where we talked about, you know, how important these concepts are to people who are trying to lose weight or are struggling with with weight gain, or they've had a history of a struggle of that yo-yo dieting and etc. In our culture, people tend to eat more food later in the day and later in the day. That's when they tend to consume the higher fat foods. And those two things together are a recipe that from a chronobiology perspective really work against our efforts. So you could be following a meal plan, for example, that you got from a credible dietitian or a nutritionist when you eat those foods could actually could actually make a difference as to as to what kind of result you get in terms of weight. Also, in terms of metabolism, I might add that because chronobiology comes into play with how how we metabolize our foods. So there's there was this article. This one is from 2014 Advances in Nutrition. It was called Chronobiology and Obesity, the Interactions Between Our Circadian Rhythms and Energy Regulation. And it basically talks about, you know, this this notion that we are tuned in with the planet, basically. So we are impacted by light, by by exposure to light and by literally by the rhythms of the earth. So it serves us well if we can bring ourselves or keep ourselves in sync with the cycles of the regular day night cycles of the earth.

Kevin: That's a circadian rhythm for circadian rhythms.

Michelle: Exactly. So circadian rhythm just on that circa it comes from the Latin circa dies, which means around a day. And it is our circadian rhythm is the biological processes that recur on a 24 hour cycle. And our bodies sync with that cycle or should sync with that cycle. Right. So we have evolved this way, like like people who keep saying, oh, we're so connected to the planet. We really, really are. And it's and it's kind of beautiful when you think about it, that we actually part of this earth. We are part of nature. We are connected to the to the cycles of nature. We've evolved for our bodies to anticipate and remain in sync with these rhythms of the earth. So when we are living our eating patterns out of sync with those rhythms, then there's an impact.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: Right. And so, you know, from an evolutionary perspective, scientists say that the reason we evolved this way was to optimize our patterns for foraging, for feeding, for fasting and for sleeping. So all physiological and behavioral functions occur on this rhythmic basis, and it must be coordinated. It must stay coordinated in order for our bodies to maintain homeostasis or maintain our balance. And, you know, that same study describes there's a hierarchical network of biologic and molecular clocks going on in us all the time. And the very central clock for all of those is in our brain, in the hypothalamus. And it's this the central clock that syncs our bodies with day and night cues. And most notably, like, as I said, light as well as our nutrient intake and our body temperature, even so not so not just our our sleep wake. But depending upon when we eat it, that clock regulates how we secrete hormones, our metabolism of nutrients and our ability to even remember things like to form memory. So it really, really, really matters. And it was I first became aware of this from like, I think it was a Dr. Michael Greger NutritionFacts.org video where, you know, it was one of the studies quoted that you eat these calories in the morning and you actually gain less weight than later in the day. And I see that that study repeated over and over again in the literature. I've got another study here. So Israeli researchers randomized overweight and obese women into one of two isocaloric groups, meaning that each group was given the exact same number of total calories.

Kevin: OK.

Michelle: And one group got a 700 calorie breakfast, a 500 calorie lunch and a 200 calorie dinner. And the other group got the exact opposite, 200 calories for breakfast, 500 calories for lunch and 700 calories for dinner.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: And since all of the study participants were eating the exact same number of calories overall, the you know, the King Prince Popper group, like we said in the last last episode, they should have lost the same amount of weight as the Popper Prince King group because they were eating exactly the same things in the exactly same right amounts.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: But actually, that wasn't true. The bigger breakfast group lost more than twice as much weight over the study period, in addition to slimming about an extra two inches off of their waistline. That's and it was a 12 week study. So at the end of the 12 week study, the King Prince Popper group lost almost 11 pounds more than those that ate their biggest meal at dinner. So they dropped 19 pounds compared to only eight pounds lost by the Popper Prince King group.

Kevin: That's amazing.

Michelle: Despite everything being the same.

Kevin: Yeah, yeah. And that is the power of chronobiology. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting because, you know, as you're scrolling through social media, you know, you're bound to see all of these, you know, weight loss gurus or whatever. And they always say it's all about a calorie deficit and weight loss is all about a calorie deficit. And clearly it's not because these two groups of women had the exact same calorie deficit. And yet just because they were eating their calories distributed at different times in the day. That's I find that just it's only one piece of the puzzle.

Michelle: Calories in calories out has always been the argument forever and ever and ever. But I mean, we all know that person that says, you know, that's tried every diet, doing everything and they're trying to do all that right. And they can't lose weight. Now, actually, that brings me to a different point that is in play here with it, because, yeah, time of day, time that you eat chronobiology is part of it. But another thing that chronobiology plays a surprisingly big role in that we didn't know until more recently. And that is the impact of chronobiology on the gut microbiome, our good old friend, the gut microbiome always comes back to the microbiome. It's the superhero of the body because our biome also has its own circadian clock. OK, so and and, you know, it's interesting, I saw Dr. Scott Stoll, who is the founder of the Plantation Project in the United States, which is a movement doing fantastic things to advance nutrition science and to make more and more doctors who don't get the benefit of learning about nutrition in medical school. OK, to have access to education and research, credible research. And also there's a lot they put on fantastic conferences, et cetera. Also, fun fact, Dr. Stoll happens to be a former Olympic gold medalist.

Kevin: Oh, wow.

Michelle: Yeah, yeah. Cool, right? Anyway, I remember he presented a case study. It was actually a Plantation Project conference that I was at. I think the patient needed to lose like 200 pounds. OK, and they were really compliant. I'm going to paraphrase and hopefully I've got this mostly right. Because I remember being fascinated by this case study. The patient had was super compliant, was doing everything right. They lost the first hundred pounds and like, you know, really a huge accomplishment. Right. Because you can imagine like, yeah, like that's like losing a child off of your body. But then they plateaued. OK, and and, you know, despite doing all of the same right behaviors, had difficulty, you know, pushing past that that next step to get to the next hundred pounds. And after like significant research and, you know, working with this patient, his hypothesis was that he believed that the struggle with that second part of it was due to the microbiome, that they needed to do more work on building the microbiome in order to be able to impact the metabolism in order to get through that next step.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: And and, you know, it has to do with so many things, though, Kevin, when that person plateaus and, you know, setting aside that one particular case and the comment that's Dr. Stoll made at that conference is that we train, especially if you've been a person who has just done calorie restriction, calorie restriction, calorie restriction, like the way that we used to be told to lose weight in the 80s.

Kevin: You may remember. Yeah.

Michelle: And slim, fast shakes and all of that stuff.

Kevin: Right. Yeah.

Michelle: We can teach our body to go into a safety mode where where it thinks I'm not like that. Calories are scarce. I'm not going to be able to find them. I have to store absolutely everything that I take in. And you have to if that's if that person has had that problem, that they've been they've struggled with weight and nothing seems to work, even if they're doing the right behaviors. You have to work with the right nutrition counselor or dietitian or doctor that really understands chronobiology in these other aspects.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: Because it could be that you have to go through a bit of a process to get your metabolism out of that fat storage mode. And it can take a year or two years and it can be microbiome playing a part. So it can be very, very complex. And the only reason I mentioned that is because there may be a listener out there that struggles with that and they are blaming themselves. And they might you know, it might it like don't ever blame yourself. Do better than yesterday and focus on the right behaviors. And if you stick to the right behaviors and you keep doing better and you make the main thing, the main thing, you've got the right things on your plate, you're following the chronobiology, you're getting diversity, you will eventually get there. It's just that it could be that you've trained your body to store fat for so long by by calorie restricting that it's going to take a bit to straighten out your metabolism.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: Yeah, of course. Yeah. And or research and find a reputable practitioner that can help you with that anyway. So I just find that very, very, very fascinating. Yeah. So we have this hierarchical network of biological clocks and it syncs with day and night queues, most notably light. And, you know, it can affect literally every every process. And, you know, the body's always prioritizing these things. Also speaks to the idea that getting the right amount of sleep is so important. It's a big part of it.

Kevin: Right. Right. It's interesting because, you know, you talk about circadian rhythms and, you know, the 24 hour clock. And, you know, I think it's it's fairly well known that our circadian rhythm isn't exactly 24 hours. And we need the light and dawn and dusk and all that to give us these these cues. And I know this because I had a good friend in university who had a daughter who was visually impaired and she was actually like completely blind, like not, you know, visual impairment runs the gamut. But she was completely blind. And so she didn't have the day and night queues. And when she was very young, she would sometimes be completely opposite the clock. Oh, wow. Her her circadian rhythm would be following sort of the it's it's true nature, which is like 23 and a half hours or something. I don't know what it is, but. And so, yeah, something like that. So generally, I think it was like she'd go on about a two month cycle, I think, where she would gradually like go off the regular day night cycle and every two months or so she'd be completely opposite as a little baby. And, you know, you can't.

Michelle: Oh, OK.

Kevin: Talk. And so she'd be awake and and active and eating and completely like normal activity for her. But it might be at three in the morning.

Michelle: Oh, my gosh. That's every parent's nightmare.

Kevin: And yeah, no. And and and, you know, my friend really struggled with this at a certain age. Like and she she like saw specialists and all that. And there are ways once a child grows to a certain age and can sort of understand more cues than, you know, you can you can work with this. And and, you know, I don't believe that blind adults like have to deal with this because I think, again, they can they can manage through various ways. But as a little infant, when she was very young, you can't tell an infant. No. Yeah, it's three in the morning. The sun hasn't risen yet. Come on. Like, you know, get go back to bed.

Michelle: So it must be like the photoreceptors like that that was missing the signaling with the brain. Probably because of the blindness.

Kevin: I don't know. I guess it was. I don't know what it was, but she was completely missing all light cues because, you know, a lot of visually impaired people can still see light.

Michelle: I never I never would have thought of that. But that makes sense.

Kevin: It was just that that stuck with me, her experience, because she really, really struggled until I believe her daughter was around I want to say around four or five.

Michelle: So it did straighten out eventually?

Kevin: Yeah, because she basically and again, I'm completely ignorant. I can't remember what it was. But there are methods that assist blind people, completely blind people to stay on sort of society's circadian rhythm.

Michelle: Wow, that's fascinating. I have to admit, that's an area I know nothing about.

Kevin: I've never I can't remember what some of those techniques were. But but there were I think it's a I think it's a combination of mental techniques, but also tools like alarm clocks and things like that. Right. That sort of force you to force your your body circadian rhythm to stay in tune with the rest of society.

Michelle: Right. Right. Well, I know, as I said in the last episode, I've recently come back from a hiking trip in Iceland. And this time of year in Iceland, it never gets completely dark. Yes.

Kevin: Yes.

Michelle: So it was I think that's one of the things that contributed often to us eating so late because it didn't look like it was getting late.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: And we had to have blackout curtains. And I wore a mask, like everything that I could to try to make sure that I could get darkness to sleep. But yeah, I really felt it even I can't remember what the time. I think it's three hours, three hours.

Kevin: No, I think it's I think it's five hours.

Michelle: Oh, is it five?

Kevin: Yeah, you might be right.

Michelle: Five hours. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, it was it's challenging, right? You know it. And this is this is one of the things when if you're moving time zones, that's why we often have struggle with our eating and our feeling well. And even, you know, you know, whether it's travelers, diarrhea or travelers, constipation for different reasons. But we just basically get messed up. And then some of it, some of it is entering a different microbial environment and some of it is entering a different circadian rhythm. Right.

Kevin: Right.

Michelle: So I it made me kind of dive into like, what do we do if we're traveling across time zones? How can we handle that? So I thought we could talk about that for a sec.

Kevin: Please do, because I love to travel and it always jetlag, always messes me up. And my my digestion is always like off for a couple of days. And I'm not hungry, but I try to force myself to eat. But and it's just it's just so anything I I'm all ears. I know.

Michelle: And, you know, do you ever noticed on the plane, Kevin, like it's like the airline tries to help you with that, because if it's if it's a long overnight flight, like they'll they'll they'll change the time that they do their meal service to align with the new time zone.

Kevin: Yeah.

Michelle: Right.

Kevin: But but but it's funny because just going back to the what you just spoke about, it's funny because I you know, when you know, I took my son to Vietnam recently and the flight left here.

Michelle: I need to hear about that.

Kevin: Yeah, it left here at like one in the morning. It was literally the last flight before they shut down the airport. Red eye. And I just wanted to like go and sleep, you know, because I'd already eaten at home and, you know, I didn't go to the airport to like eleven o'clock at night or something. And then we get on the plane, we take off. And the first thing they do is serve dinner in air quotes. And to me, like I just I wasn't hungry and my son wasn't hungry. He was already asleep. I just wanted to sleep. But then I'm like, oh, should I eat? Because this is going to be the last time I can eat for several hours, blah, blah, blah. And it just struck me as odd that they would serve you. I know they're trying to get you on the new schedule, but like to serve you dinner right before you go to sleep, it seems counterintuitive and you won't sleep well. And already trying to sleep on a plane is miserable. And it's just it's just so what's the time difference?

Michelle: Like what time would it have been in Vietnam?

Kevin: It would have been exactly opposite. So it would have been one in the morning or sorry. Sorry. One in the afternoon.

Michelle: One in the afternoon. So they were effectively trying to serve you lunch.

Kevin: Yeah, it was a full heavy dinner. Like it was it was like dinner size, dinner proportion. It wasn't a snack.

Michelle: Yeah, I think you would have had European trips to like flights to Europe that always leave in the evening. They always serve dinner right after they take off.

Kevin: And yeah, it almost pays to if you're if you're flying in that direction and going to be on that type of a schedule with the airline meal service, you almost want to not eat before you leave or.

Michelle: Right.

Kevin: Well, I usually not at the airport.

Michelle: Well, the thing is, I usually just eat at the airport and then I just don't eat the inflight meal.

Kevin: Yeah.

Michelle: Not that I mean, for other reasons. Yeah, exactly. Like I'm not missing much by not eating the inflight meal. Let's face it. But, you know, and I just I just I just say no thanks and and try to get some sleep.

Kevin: So did you did you opt to arrive hungry?

Michelle: I did. Well, I mean, it was a very long flight. So there were other meals. But I figured like I mean, I figured normally I wouldn't eat for like eight or nine hours when I'm sleeping.

Kevin: And you're sitting there and you're not doing any energy expenditure and it can be really uncomfortable. Yeah, for sure.

Michelle: So no, it's fine.

Kevin: But it's just generally generally what the evidence says about traveling across time zones is that you should try to shift your sleep and your meals before your trip if it's possible. So they suggest synchronizing your light exposure and your meal times to whatever the timing is of where you're traveling. And, you know, that the benefit of doing this is that if you start get a jump on adjusting your circadian rhythm to, you know, food intake and metabolism, it'll it'll help you shift your hunger cues. Right?

Michelle: Yeah.

Kevin: So they suggest to begin shifting your bedtime and your wake up time 15 to 30 minutes earlier or later each day for several days, depending upon when whether you're traveling east or west, like whichever direction and like adjust your meal times to align with the new schedule that you're going to and maximize light exposure in the morning if you're traveling eastward or try to maximize it in the evening if you're traveling westward. And then while you're on the go to seek immediately when you arrive at your destination to seek the bright light in the morning when traveling east and late afternoon when traveling west as much as you can to help get yourself back in sync and eat your meals again on with the with the time zone. Right. And try to just, you know, stay the course until you get your hunger cues in line.

Michelle: Right.

Kevin: Really important or to help set that up to succeed. They suggest limiting alcohol, limiting caffeine. When you are eating, don't eat heavy, dense meals, especially on the day that you're traveling kind of like you just said you didn't feel like eating. Right.

Michelle: Yeah.

Kevin: Like so. So like, don't if you don't like don't have anything heavy, because that will disrupt your sleep, like you said, and your and your digestion. And then, you know, once you're there, just fully embrace the time zone as quickly as you can. And try not to compare the time at your destination with your time at home because you can get in your head too much.

Michelle: Totally.

Kevin: And really try to be kind to yourself to protect your sleep hygiene in which, you know, when you're on vacation, there can be this tendency to want to go embrace the nightlife. But but like, give that a couple of days, like try to just really maintain comfortable sleep environment. And good wisdom, whether we're traveling or not, is to try to avoid naps that are longer than 20 minutes.

Michelle: Right. Right. Yeah, I'd like to add one more item to that list. Yeah, please do. And I found helps me personally, especially on red eyes when you arrive in the morning. Exercise. Oh, yeah, I find when I even if you're tired, just walking like not not, you know, pumping iron or whatever. But I find when I arrive at a city, the first thing I try to do, especially as a night flight, I'm arriving in the morning, the first thing I try to do is walk around the neighborhood and get to know the city. Because the exercise sort of keeps me going. And it kind of gets your blood pumping and and keeps you awake for the rest of the day so that you're not tempted to have a nap or go to bed hyper, hyper early. I find the exercise kind of helps me get a little bit onto the, you know, onto that rhythm.

Kevin: That makes sense because you would produce endorphins and you know, you just yeah.

Michelle: And also you're also kind of taking a little bit of advantage of the the the thrill of being in a new city, you know, you've got also just the mental, hey, I'm here, I'm on vacation. So take advantage of that on the very first day and walk around, you know.

Kevin: Yeah.

Michelle: Yeah.

Kevin: That's great advice, Kevin.

Michelle: I follow that to the letter. The one thing from that list you gave, everything makes sense. And I agree with everything, except the one little tiny criticism I have just from a reality standpoint. Sure. The trying to I understand why you would want to try to get on the new time zone before you leave. But if you're working your work up until the day I know it's so it can be so hard living in life. And, you know, if you're going to Vietnam, which is literally on the opposite side of the clock, like you can't you can't spend, you know, half a month living on Vietnam time in Canada. You know what I mean?

Kevin: No, but I think but I think if you get it, like even if you like started a couple of days ahead, shifting it by even 15 minutes or whatever, I think it could get easier. But I realize that's not practical at all times. I mean, quite often when I'm going, I have relatives out west and I have to go west quite frequently. I certainly don't have the opportunity to do that, although they say that your body clock is less confused when you're traveling westward than when you're traveling eastward.

Michelle: So I feel like I also think I think it would help like your 15 minutes a day, I think would help on shorter trips. Like if you're going west, you know, I mean, you know, for people who aren't necessarily listeners who aren't necessarily from Canada, like from Toronto to Vancouver is about is four hour time zone difference. Yeah. And so, you know, I can see it, you know, you could you could fairly easily be on Vancouver time or close to it in Toronto because that's only four hour difference. You could go to bed two hours early and wake up two hours early and and it wouldn't disrupt your life. But I think on it would be easier to adapt for sure.

Kevin: Yeah.

Michelle: But on big time zone shifts when you're going to Asia or something from Canada.

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

Michelle: That's when I was in Bali.

Kevin: I was I was so messed up when I go.

Michelle: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's it's tough.

Kevin: And in China, I was I could I remember getting home and not even really being capable of driving. I was so exhausted from the jet lag. I think the lessons learned from those trips for me is I mean, different. You were going on vacation with your son and you had a finite amount of time. But I think if I ever have the luxury of a couple of extra days to tack on, I would fly halfway.

Michelle: Yes.

Kevin: Yeah. Spend a couple of days at a destination and then continue on the other half because those are long, long, long trips.

Michelle: They they are. And the other things I find coming home is always tough because when you arrive at a destination, you're on the high of being on vacation. You're home. It's kind of oh, I'm back to the dull drudgery of work.

Kevin: Nobody likes unpacking.

Michelle: But yeah, you're unpacking. You're like thinking about, oh, I got to go to work tomorrow or whatever. And it's so I find that's much harder coming home, regardless of the of the direction east or west. It's always tougher to come home just from a mental standpoint.

Kevin: The other aspect of what we're talking about, and I didn't dive into any research from this, but I have researched it in the past for a nutrition client, is the people that are on shift work and they're they're constantly they're either on permanently on nights or they're on, you know, three days on three days off kind of thing. And, you know, I again, like I said, I didn't look it up for today's episode, but it just occurred to me and I can mention it that I have read that research in the past and they do believe there is a lower life expectancy overall of people that work shifts or who flip between shifts. And it's and I would I just mentioned it because it's very likely connected to this idea of chronobiology and and sleep quality and and all of those cycles, metabolic cycles, et cetera, that would be impacted by that. So I think that's I think that's very hard on people, particularly the ones that are flipping back and forth.

Michelle: It is. I worked night shifts for three years when I was going through university and I would work 10 days on four days off. So I wasn't switching constantly, but I'd work a 10 day night shift from midnight to late in the morning, go to university in the day, sleep a little bit in the late afternoon into the you know, about 11 o'clock, wake up and go to work. And then I'd have four days off every two weeks when I would that would be the time that I'd hang out with friends and I would try to go back onto a normal daytime cycle. And I was kind of constantly jet lagged, honestly. And I felt it like trying to wake up at 11 at night is especially in winter or something like it's tough. And, you know, to go to sleep when the sun is shining, even with blackout curtains and everything else, like it's really tough. So I hated my shift work.

Kevin: Yeah, I did that for a bit during COVID.

Michelle: And full respect to all shift workers, you know, but it's tough.

Kevin: Yeah, I was on 12 hour rotating 12 hour shifts for a while when anybody that had a hospital based job was, you know, was all hands on deck and I was put on different things. And I was 12 hours on 12 hours off with I think it was, I can't remember, but it was two or three days in between the flip over similar to what you described. But I remember, just to your point, Kevin, that it wasn't like I really got three days off because that one day when I was coming off of night was just all about adjustment. I couldn't really enjoy myself or do anything that day. And so I, then I would have one day off and then we would flip to days. So then I'd be fine. But then flipping back to nights, it was the same thing. Like you really only got.

Michelle: You lose a day or two and, and you're, you're, again, your digestion's off and your sleep patterns off and your mood is just like ridiculous.

Kevin: Yeah. So my advice in that situation, if somebody finds themselves in that situation, I mean, you've got to, you've got to work and that's your job and I get it and it is what it is. But then more than ever, it's very important for the person to develop as good routines as they possibly can around eating and that they stick to as good a quality as they can. Especially if, you know, if they're concerned about weight gain, et cetera, like more, more diligence perhaps is required for that individual than the person that doesn't have that factor to, you know, working against them.

Michelle: So. I wonder if also to, to your previous point about travel, I wonder if, if you've only got, you know, if, if you really are on like a, you know, three day on three day off schedule or something, I wonder if trying to go back fully to days on your, on your two or three days off, if you maybe go halfway.

Kevin: Yeah. It might be easier.

Michelle: To try and make it easier. Yeah. I remember sometimes on my four days off, I would still go to bed really, really early.

Kevin: Yeah.

Michelle: Because I was used to it. I'd still be awake during hours and all that, but I wouldn't go out super late and I'd still go to bed early to try to be a little bit on my night shift and I'd, I'd wake up incredibly early. I'd wake up at like four in the morning, but that made it slightly easier when I went back onto the, the nighttime schedule.

Kevin: Yeah.

Michelle: Okay. Well, this is, this has been fascinating.

Kevin: Yeah. I think chronobiology is super fascinating.

Michelle: And I had no idea that this even existed. Yeah. Biology. So I have a new favorite topic. I love it.

Kevin: There you go. Do you have a favorite word like autophagy?

Michelle: Well, autophagy is still my favorite.

Kevin: Chronobiology is just as sexy a word.

Michelle: But yeah, but it doesn't sound good. You gotta do it when you sneeze. Chronobiology.

Kevin: No, but like autophagy, that just Doesn't have the same, doesn't have the same ring to it.

Michelle: Autophagy just rolls off the tongue. I am weird. You're figuring this out. It's how many episodes? We're into like, you know, 40 some odd episodes. We're almost at episode number 50, by the way. We're going to have to have a big party for that.

Kevin: Yes. Like, share, review, please people.

Michelle: Yes. And if you have any questions for Michelle, since all of these last two episodes started with a simple listener question.

Kevin: Yeah, I love it. I love listener questions. Please keep them coming.

Michelle: Email us at n4noobs at gmail.com or connect with us on and connect with us on Facebook.

Kevin: Absolutely.

Michelle: Facebook slash Nutrition for Noobs. Super easy. And please like, share, share with like-minded people. Feel free to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. That helps other people find us.

Kevin: And it won't always be just me. We have some really cool guests coming up.

Michelle: We have some amazing, amazing guests in the works. I have a sneak preview of some of the guests, and I cannot wait. And Michelle just wants to talk to someone else besides me.

Kevin: So she can't wait either. No, I don't. Heaven, you know I love you infinitely. I just think there's some people that know way more about certain topics than I do, and I would also love to learn more from them and share that with listeners.

Michelle: Totally, totally. Okay, so time for the dad joke. And this is right up your alley, Michelle.

Kevin: Perfect.

Michelle: A snake walks into a bar.

Kevin: Oh, why is that? Oh, it's up in a bar. It's going to say snakes. I don't like snakes.

Michelle: No, no, no, but it's the bar. A snake walks into a bar. The bartender said, Hey, how'd you do that? It takes a while, but it hits, finally.

Kevin: Oh my God, that's good.

Michelle: The minute I heard that one, I had to save it for you.

Kevin: I was like, what?

Michelle: It takes a bit. I was also like, huh?

Kevin: That's so funny.

Michelle: Thank you, Michelle, for another amazing, super, super interesting episode. My pleasure, my friend. My new favorite topic.

Kevin: Anytime.

Michelle: And until next time, eat your greens.

Kevin: And be real, everyone.

Michelle: This has been Nutrition for Noobs. We hope you're a bit more enlightened about how your fantastic and complicated body works with the food you put into it. If you have a question or a topic you'd like Michelle to discuss, drop us a line at n4noobs at gmail.com. That's the letter N, the number 4, N-O-O-B-S at gmail.com. If you haven't already, you can subscribe to the podcast on whatever your favorite platform might be. Also, please consider leaving a review or telling your friends. That's the best way to spread the word. We'll see you next time with another interesting topic. The views and opinions expressed on Nutrition for Noobs are those of the hosts. It is not intended to be a substitute for medical, nutritional, or health advice. Listeners should seek a personal consultation with a qualified practitioner if they have any concerns or before commencing any actions mentioned in the podcast.